The created Soul, Evil and God's laws

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DeusVeritas

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I’ve been thinking alot lately about the soul when it comes to evil and God’s laws. The Catechism really doesn’t go into alot of detail regarding God’s laws and the soul’s recognition of good and evil…And lately the following questions have been nagging me to no end.

**-If as the Catechism states our souls are immediately created at conception, then where does an act of evil originate in a human being? Does it start in the soul, mind or body?

-Why would a created soul be able to have power ** over the laws of its own Creator to go against these very laws “created” by their Creator? God is suppose to be all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.

-If God is not the source of evil, then what is the origin of evil itself in this universe that is God’s own creation?

-If evil began with humans at the Fall, then wouldn’t that make us creators with a small “c” in a sense?

These are the questions that really bother me at times. Any comments and opinions welcomed…I only ask that the “free-will” argument not be made…UNLESS, you can bring a fresh perspective on free-will and evil. 🤷 Because the conversations I have seen on free will and evil usually end in a circular debate.

I thank you all in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this topic. 🙂
 
…And lately the following questions have been nagging me to no end.

-If as the Catechism states our souls are immediately created at conception, then where does an act of evil originate in a human being? Does it start in the soul, mind or body?
I can answer for the philosophical perspective;

The Catechism certainly is right on that point (by definition).
The “act of evil” comes in by the first act of sin. The Catechism might disagree with what I say concerning sin, so keep that in mind.

Sin (missing the mark) philosophically merely means “error in pursuit of your goal”. It is said that truly all are born in sin. This is necessarily true (I won’t go into the logic).

What causes truly ALL sin is the act of presumption. The act of presumption means an action taken before all consequences were taken into account. Obviously if anyone were to balance all possible effects from an action, they would always make the exact right choice so as to obtain their goal and thus not ever sin.

But time available to think as well as limits in perception do not allow for ANY human to EVER truly balance all possible effects of an action before they are forced into taking action. Thus every human must sin.

The way to resolve this irrevocable fact is the concept called “forgiveness”. By virtue of forgiveness the consequences of not thinking all the way through all possible ill effects of an action can be reduced to the point that not much thinking is really required.

This one concept more substantiates Jesus’ teachings than anything anyone else taught (much to the disappointment of the those who live off of the judgmental attitude of others.)

When Man does not forgive those of his own make (humans), they have no choice but to err and sin. This causes them to suffer and die.

Where such error “starts” is a little complicated. In a sense it is asking “who is at fault” when in fact, the entire gathering is at fault.

The soul is not subject to sin itself as it does not actually act. The spirit is what acts and thus when it comes to a person presuming, the result of not thinking but acting anyway, both the mind and the spirit are “response-able” to either cause or not cause the eventual act.

But if the environment is one of non-forgiveness, no action taken will ever be sin free. In this sense, it is the environment that was “response-able” yet did not respond and thus cast the person into inescapable sin.

Equally the body has limits and must have. It is by these limits that perception is limited as well as potential to act. This limitation causes the resultant need to think and act even more than would be necessary if the body could have been different. In this sense, it is the body that sets up the situation.

So, in the long run, you can blame any of those elements you prefer. I consider it wisest to only blame what you can change.

You cannot change your soul (by your will anyway). You can change your spirit. You can eventually change your body. You can change your environment.

I would think it wisest to blame the one you can change toward the most good (into harmony with the need) by so blaming. If blaming isn’t likely to change any of them, don’t blame (don’t judge; presume/sin) because that would institute even another sin.

What all of that boils down to is;
  1. Forgive those who trespass so as to save yourself from the need to judge and sin.
  2. Teach others to do the same thereby reducing the lack of forgiveness in your environment.
  3. Praise what is (God) such as to not cause even more presumption of judgment by using the little time you have focused on the problem, but more mentally free and calm to focus more on the potential solution.
  4. Thank Jesus for providing you with a potentially forgiving environment such that your presumptions do not readily bring about negative consequence.
  5. Pay more attention to what is (God).
  6. Isolate from that which gives impetus to rush into taking action (lusts, fears).
**-Why would a created soul be able to have power ** over the laws of its own Creator to go against these very laws “created” by their Creator? God is suppose to be all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.
Those “laws” are to give your mind less to presume about and your heart less urge to act without thought. They do not remove your need to act. They merely allow you to succeed despite being so very limited. But if you choose to not take that advice, ignore the laws, you get the consequence of such presumption.

The “laws” are not unbreakable because they are “advise” so as to prevent harm. To create you in such a manner as to not be able to sin, God would have had to make you infinitely intelligent, infinitely aware, and infinitely influential. But then who would your friends be? 😉
**-If God is not the source of evil, then what is the origin of evil itself in this universe that is God’s own creation? **
God created the situation. In that sense, again, you can blame God if you think it will do any good. But as before, I suggest only blaming what you can change but love and praise all else.

“Evil” is what prevents you continued life. It is created by your sin and your situation. If you do not respond to cause forgiveness in your situation, you have not responded in a manner rational. Evil is, in a sense, your challenge. Without such challenge there is no growth. Without growth, there can be no forgiving (harmonious) environment established.

In effect, you are asking why God didn’t just make the universe in a particular fixed manner of his preference. The reality is that he did. And he wants you to participate in making it into harmony, with you still in it. Be glad of that, else for what purpose would he have for you at all?
-If evil began with humans at the Fall, then wouldn’t that make us creators with a small “c” in a sense?
Inescapable presumption is what “began at the fall” for Man (not humans). And I’m not sure what you are calling “creator” in that question. What defines a “creator”?
 
-If as the Catechism states our souls are immediately created at conception, then where does an act of evil originate in a human being? Does it start in the soul, mind or body?
This reminds me of when Christ is answering some challenges of uncleanliness. The context is that the apostles do not ritually wash their hands before eating as instructed by the law. Jesus rebuked them saying it is not what comes from the outside that makes one unclean, it comes from the inside.

I got a few things out of that passage that I think relates to this and a few bonuses. First that the laws written down from the ages are not truly from Moses nor from God, they were additions. From the 8th century BC till Jesus’s times, there were plenty of human additions from this and those that are challenging Christ, maybe they were Pharisees, have lost the meaning behind the teachings. “It is Mercy I desire, not sacrifice” is another quote that supports this line of thinking. This quote is from the scene where the apostles were being condemned by the Pharisees for plucking grain on the Sabbath.

As for the question at hand, I’m not sure where exactly each individual sin comes from. But from my experience in light of this passage, it is from “me”. This “me” inside me is totality of my being. I’m an embodied spirit right? So my sins can come from acts of the mind (lustful thinking), acts of the body with or without the mind (sinful habits such as masturbation and demonic gestures), weakness of the souls (not sure about this but I would imagine those times I withdrew my soul from God), or a combination of these things. The important part is not where exactly does each sin originate, but how to respond to each weakness. One such response that often works for me is to immediately pray to God. If my soul, body, mind, and heart is truly pointed to God then I can be a lot stronger. one way to help me connect to God better is to talk to God each morning and ask God for strength. If I’m brave enough, I would also place all my faith, trust, and love in him. Then when my sinful side is winning, I can reconnect with God quickly. I should place myself in his hands everyday, but I am weak.
-Why would a created soul be able to have power over the laws of its own Creator to go against these very laws “created” by their Creator? God is suppose to be all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.
God is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful. But we definitely are not. God is not weak that he feels he needs to make every decision for us as far as I’m aware. We cannot hurt God or run away from God. As long as we exists, this should prove that God has not abandon us because of anything we did. Else if God ever stops thinking about us, I would imagine we would simply disappear. Without God, there is nothing. I’m pretty sure that is literally true as well as metaphorically true.

As to the details of your question. Nothing we can do will have power over the laws God has created. Say God has a law that if we cross over a certain line we will turn purple. Well, we are stubborn and cross that line. What happens? We turn purple. No two ways about it. Now then you may ask, what about Adam and Eve eating the forbiddon fruits “lest [they] will die”. Well death is not just a physical destruction of the body. Death is biblical terms, from what I understand, often refers to a spiritual seperation with God. It is a spiritual death. In old Jewish culture, from what I learned, when someone has done something so hideous or has denounce ties witha family, whether they are physically alive or not, they are still dead to the family. This is the same in Vietnamese culture as well. This is a real death, just maybe not the one you were thinking of.

Two examples to end this train of thought are the prodigal son and a practicing Jewish man converting to Catholicism. The father of the prodigal son says “my son who was *dead *is not alive”. This is Jewish culture we are talking about and what the son did was literally die in the family’s eyes. What Adam and Eve did is died in God’s eyes from my understanding. This does not mean God does not think about them anymore. He continues to love Adam and Eve and wish for their eventual return – much like the father to the prodigal son. Now the second example is one I heard in on Journey Homes (wonderful show on EWTN). The guest at the show explained that her father’s side of the family never ever talks about his father’s conversion into Catholicism from Judaism. This is because if this is ever recognized to be true, then the family is obligated to perform a funeral ceremony for the father and cut ties with the father as a physical member of the family. That is some serious business.

So to sum up the answer, there is nothing in our power that can break God’s laws. God has created Laws to protect us from ourselves. If we wish to harm ourselves, such as crossing the line of perpetual purple existence, or eating a forbidden fruit, or committing adultery against our spouse, we must face the consequences – which may even be sin and death.
-If God is not the source of evil, then what is the origin of evil itself in this universe that is God’s own creation?
I think “evil” as we know it, has it’s source on sin. Sin from what I know is not doing God’s will. Basically if God is the source and the totality of all love and goodness. Doing anything that is not God’s will would be having some lost of love and/or goodness. I would imagine this is where sin comes in to fill up those missing pieces. Note that there are different levels of sinfulness. It is not a all or nothing in many cases.
-If evil began with humans at the Fall, then wouldn’t that make us creators with a small “c” in a sense?
I do not think this is a correct statement. I remember learning that the fall of nature originated in the fall of man through Adam and Eve’s sins. Adam seemed to have sinned several times during that scene in the garden, not just once for eating the apple. He ate a forbidden fruit, he took it upon himself to consider that he can be like God in knowledge (either he or Eve did–not quite sure the details), he *blamed *the woman (I think this is very very bad), and lastly God gave him plenty of time to repent but he did not. That is a lot of sins pile up in a few lines.

As for humans and human creation, I think we do have some creative powers given by God, however our creative powers are not “ex nihilo” (“out of nothing”) like God’s power. Every creative act we do draws on the matter and energy God has already created. Such creations are artworks, paintings, literature, scientific knowledge, and of course babies!
 
I wanted to thank BOTH of you for your responses. :D:D Your posts well exceeded my expectations and have given me much spiritual and philosophical food for thought.

God bless you both and have a great weekend my friends!! 👍
 
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