The cult of personality responsiblity

[vern_humphrey]

I have read it, and basically it’s ****. Promoting the idea that a “net worth” of a million dollars makes you rich is just really stupid. I don’t want to offend anyone, but you could have a couple investment properties mortgaged to the hilt living pay check to pay check with a technical networth of a milion dollars.

Read it again. Carefully, because your have come away with some erroneous ideas.

First of all, “net worth” means “assets minus liabilities.” So it is not possible to be “mortgaged to the hilt” and living paycheck to paycheck and be a millionaire. The mortgates are “liabilities” and must be subtracted from the value of the property (the “assets.”)

There are a lot of these so called “millionaries” next door that are really living on the verge making minimum finance payments.

And you know this, how?

The credit system is another matter, however.
I have never said there should be no work involved, of course there should. Nor, as so many have absurdly asserted, that everyone should be given everything from the government. This thread is bascially one long strawman as I tend to think few understood the actual point.

True – some of us don’t even understand that “net worth” means “assets minus liabilities.”

What I do find more interesting is the level to which everyone deludes themselves into beliving, “hey I can be rich to.” Social mobility exists, however it’s as often downward as it is upward. It’s also fairly rare for someone to move up the ladder a great deal.

You might be surprised how many people on this forum are not deluded and have actually done it.

 

[johannahw]

IMVHO, as long as we’re pro-life, we have an obligation to help our “neighbor”. As the man said to Jesus: And who is my neighbor? Read the story yourself. You’ll find it in one of the gospels.
And speaking of the scum of society, I really wonder about the types of people Jesus was spending all his time with.
Just my humble opionion.
Johannahw

 

[gardenswithkids]

…To play devil’s advocate, why should I give her anything? …

Sorry, I don’t want to play with a devil’s advocate. You know the answer. The questions I’m more interested in discussing isn’t “why?”; I’m more interested in “who and how?”

…Sure I could, and actually we did, give them the money. It takes care of the bill, but their economic situation is unchanged. …

Good for you. You did help change their economic situation. They had a large, unexpected medical bill that they couldn’t pay, and now they paid it. Many people–including tax payers who pay for welfare programs-- live day to day, month to month.

… when they reach the bottom we will end up paying for them…It’s simply cheaper to keep them from reaching the bottom then it is to finance them once they get there

You assume that they will reach bottom; I don’t. Grant you know them while I don’t, but I have known other people who were on welfare and who got off it.

I also point out for your consideration that the largest nutritional problem in the US is obesity, not starvation. Obesity affects many who recieve public assistance. Obesity places people at risk for other health problems, such as diabetes and hypertension, which bring about yet more complications such as kidney failure and heart disease. Such expensive complications contribute to the rising cost of health care–which results in higher co-pays on insurance, and sometimes hospitals go after patients for their $800 co-pays.

…The government has nothing to do with charity. It has to do with social interest.

That the government has nothing to do with charity I see as a problem. We are called to love one another. Charity matters. I find the utilitarian approach of government help because of only “social interest” somewhat degrading to human dignity. It’s certainly not as degrading as starving to death; I like that we collectively do help people through government programs. But the question of “who pays” and “how much” is rather critical when discussing government programs. Often those who advocate higher taxes to pay for government social programs also seek tax loopholes to avoid paying their personal taxes.

…At any rate, I’ve often noticed those that spend the most time advocating private charity are the ones that never donate any money to it. SO instead of telling me what I should do why aren’t you out doing it?

I guess we notice different things about people. You started this thread telling me what I should do with my money–specifically pay more taxes for social programs. You don’t know me, and you don’t know what I do or do not donate to charity. All our actions–public and private, including charitable contributions–God will reveal at the end of time. But contrary to your experience, I read some study somewhere that revealed results contrary to what you noticed.

If you encounter people who never donate to charity, you encounter people who do not live out the Gospel. Christ calls us to help others, but He did not dictate any specific government programs. Good Christians can disagree on the best way to care for and distribute goods to the poor. I am not debating about our need to give to the poor; I agree with you on that. But in my view, I believe Christ calls us to personal responsiblity in all we do, including in our donations to the less fortunate. We give to Caesar what is Caesar’s; but when we feed the hungry or clothes the naked or care for the sick, we do it for Christ.

 

[Sheeniac]

I have read it, and basically it’s ****. Promoting the idea that a “net worth” of a million dollars makes you rich is just really stupid. I don’t want to offend anyone, but you could have a couple investment properties mortgaged to the hilt living pay check to pay check with a technical networth of a milion dollars. There are a lot of these so called “millionaries” next door that are really living on the verge making minimum finance payments. The credit system is another matter, however.
I have never said there should be no work involved, of course there should. Nor, as so many have absurdly asserted, that everyone should be given everything from the government. This thread is bascially one long strawman as I tend to think few understood the actual point.
What I do find more interesting is the level to which everyone deludes themselves into beliving, “hey I can be rich to.” Social mobility exists, however it’s as often downward as it is upward. It’s also fairly rare for someone to move up the ladder a great deal.

Are you sure we read the same book? It focused more on small businesses, “quiet wealth”, not financing and flipping properties, and being overextended.

And I didn’t say that you said everyone should be given everything from the government.

If people don’t understand the thread, perhaps you should start another one with a more concise post.

People aren’t deluded into thinking ‘I can be rich too’ because it isn’t a delusion. A person has the opportunity. But it is hard, comes at a high cost, and is not guaranteed. I think most people recognize that. There are many societies where this is completely impossible due to the structural set up of society. In our country, you have a chance.

Of course social mobility goes both ways. Has anyone argued otherwise?

 

[Sheeniac]

Originally Posted by CCM08
…At any rate, I’ve often noticed those that spend the most time advocating private charity are the ones that never donate any money to it. SO instead of telling me what I should do why aren’t you out doing it?

My apologies first for assuming that you live off your trust fund proceeds. However, that was the only thing you mentioned in terms of personal economics.

I’ve found that people who advocate govt spending are the ones not giving money since they do not believe in personal responsibility. Al Gore’s tax return claiming $700 or so while VP comes to mind. Good grief, I make much less than him, have fewer assets than him, and I give $1,000 to the Bishop’s Annual Appeal. And that is just one of many charitable outlays.

So, we are out there doing it.

I will have to make a concession to you though… I do know of some people who think in the manner that disgusts you - that they pulled themselves up, and others should, with no help. What to do? I try to be a good example and gently advance my views on giving. But these people are nowhere near as common as those who are generous.