The Dangers of Spiritualizing your psychological problems.

[EasterJoy]

Generally speaking,I find it hard to comprehend how something’s could be both Physical and Spiritual?

This thread also reminds me of this article I read yesterday that stated that Exorcisms are on the rise in Italy.
My concern is that while possession is real and can exist,it is rare and in my view most of the people they are exorcising (who are spitting,hitting or cursing) etc really have a Mental/Neurological issue.
Unless the person has been deeply involved in the occult or similar,i see “medical condition” as the more likely scenario.
The Exorcism itself may not hurt them,but in some instances they may receive further psychological distress/confusion or perhaps even go into Cardiac Arrest due to being forcibly held down while thrashing about in distress etc…

The experience of going through a physical issue often has a spiritual and a psychological component that is ultimately just as important. For instance, let us say you are diagnosed with cancer, and you ultimately go into remission. The experience of going through a life-threatening illness will very often have social and psychological effects as well as spiritual effects. Your family relationships and friendships can hardly help but be affected, Your relationship with God can hardly fail to be affected. You may have started with an experience that had a physical genesis, but that doesn’t mean the effects aren’t felt in many dimensions of your life. Researchers increasingly say that the psychological and spiritual effects of a physical disease can in turn have physical effects. Even if the progression of the physical disease is not apparently affected by psychological or spiritual care, the patient’s experience of that progression can be heavily influenced by that care, both by the quality and the quantity of it. You come out of the disease and into remission perhaps looking the same, but you are a different person. You’re not just physically different. You’re affected in your psyche, too, and in your spirit. This happens beccause you are a self-aware creature and a creature with a soul.

Likewise, let us say you lose your job or a parent dies, which might be described as a psychological event. We have all heard how this so often makes a person physically vulnerable. Your wife leaves you, your hair falls out.We have all heard how a momentous psychological event can have spritual repercussions, as well.

That is what I meant: That is, you can hardly throw a rock into just one dimension of a person’s life without having ripples into other pools. If a poet breaks a leg, depending on his psyche or his spirit, it may or may not show up in his poems. If a widow has social contact with her grandchildren, it can have spiritual effects, and her physical health can in turn affect her social life with her family and how they perceive her decision-making ability. The various dimensions of our lives reverberate around and affect each other. It is kind of “Western” to see these as separate issues, but it is convenient in terms of the kind of awareness we bring to the experience: awareness of our physical state, awareness of our psychological state, awareness of our spiritual state, awareness of our philosophical state, even.

In the case of a scrupulous person, bad catechesis or a misunderstanding of the faith can theoretically have negative psychological consequences. If your spiritual training or care is not in intrinsic agreement with spiritual reality, it can have the same bad consequences as being taught to misinterpret your physical or psychological perceptions.

 

[Elena321]

The experience of going through a physical issue often has a spiritual and a psychological component that is ultimately just as important. For instance, let us say you are diagnosed with cancer, and you ultimately go into remission. The experience of going through a life-threatening illness will very often have social and psychological effects as well as spiritual effects. Your family relationships and friendships can hardly help but be affected, Your relationship with God can hardly fail to be affected. You may have started with an experience that had a physical genesis, but that doesn’t mean the effects aren’t felt in many dimensions of your life. Researchers increasingly say that the psychological and spiritual effects of a physical disease can in turn have physical effects. Even if the progression of the physical disease is not apparently affected by psychological or spiritual care, the patient’s experience of that progression can be heavily influenced by that care, both by the quality and the quantity of it. You come out of the disease and into remission perhaps looking the same, but you are a different person. You’re not just physically different. You’re affected in your psyche, too, and in your spirit. This happens beccause you are a self-aware creature and a creature with a soul.

Likewise, let us say you lose your job or a parent dies, which might be described as a psychological event. We have all heard how this so often makes a person physically vulnerable. Your wife leaves you, your hair falls out.We have all heard how a momentous psychological event can have spritual repercussions, as well.

That is what I meant: That is, you can hardly throw a rock into just one dimension of a person’s life without having ripples into other pools. If a poet breaks a leg, depending on his psyche or his spirit, it may or may not show up in his poems. If a widow has social contact with her grandchildren, it can have spiritual effects, and her physical health can in turn affect her social life with her family and how they perceive her decision-making ability. The various dimensions of our lives reverberate around and affect each other. It is kind of “Western” to see these as separate issues, but it is convenient in terms of the kind of awareness we bring to the experience: awareness of our physical state, awareness of our psychological state, awareness of our spiritual state, awareness of our philosophical state, even.

In the case of a scrupulous person, bad catechesis or a misunderstanding of the faith can theoretically have negative psychological consequences. If your spiritual training or care is not in intrinsic agreement with spiritual reality, it can have the same bad consequences as being taught to misinterpret your physical or psychological perceptions.

Oh I see,so it’s more like they are intertwined with each affecting the “domain” of the other.
I was mistaking it to mean that just say a person has Cancer,or Autism (or anything else) that the actual illness was a spiritual cause itself ( like “demons” or something).

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh I see,so it’s more like they are intertwined with each affecting the “domain” of the other.
I was mistaking it to mean that just say a person has Cancer,or Autism (or anything else) that the actual illness was a spiritual cause itself ( like “demons” or something).

I have no way of knowing if causing cancer is within the torments or temptations in the arsenal of a demon. I know it is tremendous mistake to imply that, for instance, the concept of treating cancer by cultivating a certain positive mental attitude implies that a cancer patient can actually have a positive attitude all of the time or that a patient who fails to go into remission has failed in attitude. If a demon can give you cancer, that doesn’t mean God cannot achieve your healing through the instrument of the ministrations of a physician, instead of by prayer alone. Roman Catholics are not Christian Scientists.

Remember the instructions Our Lord gave when he raised the young girl from the dead? Give her something to eat. We have different ways we can treat a physical illness. Even when there is a miracle cure after prayer, there is still physical care needed. The resurrection on the last day is not just a spiritual resurrection, but also a physical one. In our ideal eternally-alive state, we’re not separated into compartments. We’re just completely alive.

 

[Rosebud77]

I have sometimes seen people complain on their personal blogs (which in the past would simply have been personal diaries rather than public) about problems which clearly have a psychological component. They will be asking for prayers, which is fine, but they really need to see a therapist to begin making progress.

see a therapist …I think over there you seek to “normalise” things more than we do. And to psychologise far more than we do here also. Interesting but this is Ireland and things are different here thankfully . My spiritual and other life are very well cared for but not by therapists …

 

[fin]

Yes, I agree with this.

That said, I also don’t like it that we have come to a point wherein when you have a ‘psychological’ problem, the answer given is always ‘go to a therapist’.

This is not to say that one shouldn’t seek help and all that, but it seems to be a band aid solution. Just because one is going to therapist isn’t an assurance that one would be healed. For some, it’s a life long struggle. You do what you can.

We all have wounds. Some are scarred more than others. Some have been abused more than others. Others had a happy and healthy childhood, some don’t. No one is perfect, so in one way or another, one may be deemed as weird, or dysfunctional, or overly spiritual, too emotional. The list goes on and on.

Having a good, Catholic therapist who wouldn’t undermine your faith is also hard. Catholictherapists.com screens those listed, I think. I visit the site and gain some valuable insight from the articles.

This is one of my all time favorite articles, When Your Problems Are Not Your Fault:

theraphaelremedy.com/item/when-your-problems-are-not-your-fault

That is what I meant: That is, you can hardly throw a rock into just one dimension of a person’s life without having ripples into other pools. .

 

[Elena321]

Yes, I agree with this.

That said, I also don’t like it that we have come to a point wherein when you have a ‘psychological’ problem, the answer given is always ‘go to a therapist’.

This is not to say that one shouldn’t seek help and all that, but it seems to be a band aid solution. Just because one is going to therapist isn’t an assurance that one would be healed. For some, it’s a life long struggle. You do what you can.

We all have wounds. Some are scarred more than others. Some have been abused more than others. Others had a happy and healthy childhood, some don’t. No one is perfect, so in one way or another, one may be deemed as weird, or dysfunctional, or overly spiritual, too emotional. The list goes on and on.

Having a good, Catholic therapist who wouldn’t undermine your faith is also hard. Catholictherapists.com screens those listed, I think. I visit the site and gain some valuable insight from the articles.

This is one of my all time favorite articles, When Your Problems Are Not Your Fault:

theraphaelremedy.com/item/when-your-problems-are-not-your-fault

In addition,I think it’s created a society where people no longer feel confident to help another person because they arn’t “qualified”.
Psychologists/therapists are useful,but I just don’t like it when they drum into the “publics” heads that we can’t help another person because we arn’t a “professional”.
It can create a helpless mindset in the public while at the sametime creating an ego for the Psychologist.

 

[DarkLight]

On the other hand, sometimes we do have to realize when we can’t do anything. I’ve been going through this with a friend who is unhappy with his state in life to the point of suicidal despair. No matter what I say or do to help, it’s the “wrong” answer and sends him into rage and despair because it’s not the answer he feels he needs.

 

[JimG]

see a therapist …I think over there you seek to “normalise” things more than we do. And to psychologise far more than we do here also. Interesting but this is Ireland and things are different here thankfully . My spiritual and other life are very well cared for but not by therapists …

As long as problems are handled it is not too important how. Spiritual problems can be handled by a priest, medical problems can be handled by a physician. What I had in mind is that sometimes one has problems in dealing with people that can be improved by improving one’s own ability to interact with others, and a psychologist can often help with that. If I find that I have the very same ‘people problems’ no matter who I deal with, then maybe it’s me, not them. But it’s hard to see that without some guidance.

 

[JimG]

Yes, I agree with this.

That said, I also don’t like it that we have come to a point wherein when you have a ‘psychological’ problem, the answer given is always ‘go to a therapist’.

This is not to say that one shouldn’t seek help and all that, but it seems to be a band aid solution. Just because one is going to therapist isn’t an assurance that one would be healed. For some, it’s a life long struggle. You do what you can.

We all have wounds. Some are scarred more than others. Some have been abused more than others. Others had a happy and healthy childhood, some don’t. No one is perfect, so in one way or another, one may be deemed as weird, or dysfunctional, or overly spiritual, too emotional. The list goes on and on.

Having a good, Catholic therapist who wouldn’t undermine your faith is also hard. Catholictherapists.com screens those listed, I think. I visit the site and gain some valuable insight from the articles.

This is one of my all time favorite articles, When Your Problems Are Not Your Fault:

theraphaelremedy.com/item/when-your-problems-are-not-your-fault

Interesting article. I liked this part: “That being said, your problems may not be your fault, but finding solutions is your responsibility. Fair or unfair, that’s simply the way it is.”

 

[EasterJoy]

Interesting article. I liked this part: “That being said, your problems may not be your fault, but finding solutions is your responsibility. Fair or unfair, that’s simply the way it is.”

Yes. The flip side is that solutions to problems we caused may not be ours to bring about. We sometimes single-handedly cause bad situations in the lives of others that are then outside of our control after we cause them. That is also a reality we have to learn to live with. Actually, I’d say that learning go on in spite of our own poor decisions that we can’t change and can’t remedy directly is routinely among the hardest problems we have to cope with.

Even when our own problem is entirely our own fault, we may easily be powerless to bring about an optimal solution without cooperation from others, cooperation we are not entitled to get and do not always get even when we are entitled to it. Finding a solution is between us and God. Those who might have helped us find the best solution may not be cooperative, even when it is also their own best solution. That’s the field of play.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.
–Robert Louis Stevenson

 

[Rosebud77]

In addition,I think it’s created a society where people no longer feel confident to help another person because they arn’t “qualified”.
Psychologists/therapists are useful,but I just don’t like it when they drum into the “publics” heads that we can’t help another person because we arn’t a “professional”.
It can create a helpless mindset in the public while at the sametime creating an ego for the Psychologist.

Glad I read this as this drives me mad sometimes. Seems like “acquired helplessness” … the old story of the Indian mahmouts who train the elephants when they are young to believe the frail tether around a foot is stronger than strong so that when they are older they are controllable…

At the back of my mind is a thought re the fear of lawsuits too!

I am one who defies that kind of authority; at my age life really is too short.

 

[Rosebud77]

As long as problems are handled it is not too important how. Spiritual problems can be handled by a priest, medical problems can be handled by a physician. What I had in mind is that sometimes one has problems in dealing with people that can be improved by improving one’s own ability to interact with others, and a psychologist can often help with that. If I find that I have the very same ‘people problems’ no matter who I deal with, then maybe it’s me, not them. But it’s hard to see that without some guidance.

A cultural difference between here and there… I would never every ask any kind of help from any “health care professional”… I work it out in prayer, with my own inner resources or with a trusted friend. Much the same with other problems.Drs ONLY in dire need…

 

[EasterJoy]

A cultural difference between here and there… I would never every ask any kind of help from any “health care professional”… I work it out in prayer, with my own inner resources or with a trusted friend. Much the same with other problems.Drs ONLY in dire need…

I would agree that most of the time the concept of problems having spiritual, psychological AND physical dimensions means that we consider coping strategies and repercussions in all three areas, not that our every problem needs the help of three different professionals. (Plus we have a professional side, a financial situation, a family dynamics side…there are numerous ways to look at the human condition!!)

By this, I mean that if your mother dies, you would consider what physical things help you to sleep and help you bear the stress, you’d remember the psychological effects of grief you might expect could hit, and of course you also think of eternal things, you’d think of the welfare of family relationships, you’d have the parent-child bond with your mom to re-calibrate and perhaps your parent-child bond with your own children or the children you did not have. If you break your leg, you keep in mind what that might do to your spirits and your prayer life. It might be a stress in those other areas, it might be an opportunity, it might be both. St. Teresa of Avila once said she had all sorts of penances in mind for Lent, then she got sick and had that for her penance. Her physical life lead in this case, and her spiritual life got to follow.

I think this works better than compartmentalizing our problems and pretending that we are not simultaneously physical, psychological, and spiritual all of the time. Sometimes, people think that making use of knowledge about human biology is disrespectful of the real power of faith. This is not true…as I noted earlier, when Jesus raised the little girl from the dead, he gave instructions that she be given something to eat. He didn’t “spiritualize” all problems; he let his followers know they ought to be practical.