The Devil and demons

[Blue_Horizon]

BlueHorizon
And what of Satan after suffering the consequences of his decision?
This is of course getting very theologically speculative but maybe it helps clarify things all the same. I see this going either of two ways:
…
(2) If Satan’s original decision was based on excessive pride in his power to fully see consequences of his decision…well now his angelic Intellect will “force” him to see he got it horribly wrong. But seeing is not automatically accepting or repenting. His iron Will of pride maintains autonomy from God because this was what caused him to see wrongly (i.e. not have faith in God) in the first place.
Perhaps Satan now reacts in either of the following two ways
(a) Sees clearly he was mistaken - and suffers in an even greater interior “hell” due to the now “observable” dissonance between the force of his Intellect seeking Truth and his Will seeking independence.
(b) Wilfully blinkers his intellect to the unforeseen, catastrophic consequences of his original decision he now experiences and maintains an illusion of successful independence from God. I do not think this is really a possibility. Aquinas seems to observe that the intellect of angels is so clear and strong that they cannot wilfully blind themselves to present reality and its logical consequences no matter how painful to see.

FM08 thanks for your clear commentary. I acknowledge your misgivings re the above point. It is counter-intuitive and I checked Aquinas on this point to make sure I didn’t get it wrong. He is the one who corrected me on this some 20 years ago! Lets tease it out, perhaps I have misunderstood you - or perhaps Aquinas.

When you suggest “An atheist may have a great intellect, but still not believe there is a God…” this is not quite right - certainly not if we refer to angels/demons. They do have faith - but it is not the sort of faith that saves (i.e. there is no assent of the will hence no hope nor charity). Demons are forced by the acumen of their powerful intellect to see incotrovertible evidence for the existence of God in the created order.

Aquinas starts off with James 2:19 “…You believe that God is one; you do well. For even the demons believe this and shudder.”

I think the real question is how demons believe (obviously it is in a different manner to the saved). Aquinas then affirms:

“The will’s moving of the intellect to assent can happen in two ways: …from an order of the will to do good, this is praiseworthy. In another by the intellect being convinced by the considerations which are presented that what is put forward is to be believed (but is not convinced by the evidentness of the object itself (which is believed)).” (ST II,II,q5)

In other words the second refers to a “compulsion of evidence on the intellect”. For humans this is always just enough “fog” re the evidence for our prejudices to cause our intellects to “fail”. Very very few intelligent humans have the impartiality to keep their minds open when such intellectual convictions inevitably leading to “faith” go contrary to the impulse of their heart. It seems this is not possible for angelic minds - and it causes demons to “shudder.” They are forced to believe in many unpalatable truths by the perspicacity/acumen of their intellect.

Whether evidence of their own failings (re illusory depence from God) is such that they are forced to rub their own faces in it we cannot be sure. I have never seen Aquinas write on such an issue . However, I suspect it is true and this increasingly dissonant and unpalatable home-truth must only add to the inner torment of the demons.

Its a strange thing that demons seem to be tortured more by the unavoidable presence/recognition of their own (unsuccessful selves) - rather than the absence of a loving God (whom they still don’t want).
It seems ironic that God despairingly gave them exactly what they wanted (independence from God), but it seems they didn’t realise/accept that the daily, unavoidable sight of their own failed selves was an intrinsic and unavoidable consequence.

 

[findingmyself08]

FM08 thanks for your clear commentary. I acknowledge your misgivings re the above point. It is counter-intuitive and I checked Aquinas on this point to make sure I didn’t get it wrong. He is the one who corrected me on this some 20 years ago! Lets tease it out, perhaps I have misunderstood you - or perhaps Aquinas.

When you suggest “An atheist may have a great intellect, but still not believe there is a God…” this is not quite right - certainly not if we refer to angels/demons. They do have faith - but it is not the sort of faith that saves (i.e. there is no assent of the will hence no hope nor charity). Demons are forced by the acumen of their powerful intellect to see incotrovertible evidence for the existence of God in the created order.

Aquinas starts off with James 2:19 “…You believe that God is one; you do well. For even the demons believe this and shudder.”

I think the real question is how demons believe (obviously it is in a different manner to the saved). Aquinas then affirms:

“The will’s moving of the intellect to assent can happen in two ways: …from an order of the will to do good, this is praiseworthy. In another by the intellect being convinced by the considerations which are presented that what is put forward is to be believed (but is not convinced by the evidentness of the object itself (which is believed)).” (ST II,II,q5)

In other words the second refers to a “compulsion of evidence on the intellect”. For humans this is always just enough “fog” re the evidence for our prejudices to cause our intellects to “fail”. Very very few intelligent humans have the impartiality to keep their minds open when such intellectual convictions inevitably leading to “faith” go contrary to the impulse of their heart. It seems this is not possible for angelic minds - and it causes demons to “shudder.” They are forced to believe in many unpalatable truths by the perspicacity/acumen of their intellect.

Whether evidence of their own failings (re illusory depence from God) is such that they are forced to rub their own faces in it we cannot be sure. I have never seen Aquinas write on such an issue . However, I suspect it is true and this increasingly dissonant and unpalatable home-truth must only add to the inner torment of the demons.

Its a strange thing that demons seem to be tortured more by the unavoidable presence/recognition of their own (unsuccessful selves) - rather than the absence of a loving God (whom they still don’t want).
It seems ironic that God despairingly gave them exactly what they wanted (independence from God), but it seems they didn’t realise/accept that the daily, unavoidable sight of their own failed selves was an intrinsic and unavoidable consequence.

Blue Horizon, I think I understand what you’re getting at and I thank you for your clarification. I guess I just need to read up a bit more on Aquinas and others to understand the theological implications of Satan’s fall and what that means for angels and demons.

Thanks for explaining that more deeply to me - you’re definitely feeding my need for knowledge about this subject!

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Blue Horizon, I think I understand what you’re getting at and I thank you for your clarification. I guess I just need to read up a bit more on Aquinas and others to understand the theological implications of Satan’s fall and what that means for angels and demons.

Thanks for explaining that more deeply to me - you’re definitely feeding my need for knowledge about this subject!

Thanks Stacey, your clear contributions have helped me also.