The difference between killing abortionists and Nazis

[dominikus28]

I have read this article and it is quite informative about why killing abortionists is not justified.
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/KILLJUST.TXT
However, I still am slightly confused about one issue. I don’t see how killing an abortionist who is on his way to a clinic is any different from killing some Nazi officers on their way to their offices. I saw a scene in a Polish film ‘General Nil’, and it shows the Polish resistance during WWII ambushing and killing a bunch of Nazi officers while they are coming out of a building and entering their cars.

I have heard the argument that killing Nazis was ok because it was a just war. But what if in America, the government started to round up disabled people and forcibly euthanising them? And if they also started killing some ethnic group in concentration camps? There would be no war, so would it be a sin to kill officers who are in charge of this murderous regime?

 

[1ke]

dominikus28:

I have heard the argument that killing Nazis was ok because it was a just war.

This is correct. Nazi officers were soldiers in an army, unjustly invading Poland and other countries and perpetrating crimes against their citizens.

It would have been morally wrong to walk up and kill German men, women, and children who were civilian non-combatants.

dominikus28:

But what if in America, the government started to round up disabled people and forcibly euthanising them? And if they also started killing some ethnic group in concentration camps? There would be no war, so would it be a sin to kill officers who are in charge of this murderous regime?

We would be called to fight the unjust actions through legal means. If states declared war with one another or against the federal government, it would be legitimate to join the state militias to overthrow such a government.

It would be immoral to kill civillians, even doctors intent on abortion.

It is not immoral to engage in a just war when one is declared, by a government or by a resistance militia (such as in the Revolutionary War).

 

[porthos11]

I have read this article and it is quite informative about why killing abortionists is not justified.
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/KILLJUST.TXT
However, I still am slightly confused about one issue. I don’t see how killing an abortionist who is on his way to a clinic is any different from killing some Nazi officers on their way to their offices. I saw a scene in a Polish film ‘General Nil’, and it shows the Polish resistance during WWII ambushing and killing a bunch of Nazi officers while they are coming out of a building and entering their cars.

I have heard the argument that killing Nazis was ok because it was a just war. But what if in America, the government started to round up disabled people and forcibly euthanising them? And if they also started killing some ethnic group in concentration camps? There would be no war, so would it be a sin to kill officers who are in charge of this murderous regime?

A big factor is the uniform. Nazi officers during a time of war may be legitimately killed in an operation that can be reasonably recognized as a militia, that is, with their own command structure and uniforms/insignia. You must note that after the war ended, people did not go around killing Nazis, but rather, they were subjected to military tribunals and executed only after they were convicted and sentenced. Spies in civilian clothing cannot just be killed on sight; they are expected to be arrested, tried and then executed if convicted.

Even haphazard groups like the Taliban may be considered legitimate combat targets even without a proper uniform since they too carry features of a militia, such as a command structure, tactics, arms and flag and so can be considered by reasonable people to be a military force.

As for your hypothetical situation, a legitimate rebellion can force the constitution of organized militias as well even without a formal declaration of war. The American Revolutionary War had its origins as a local rebellion but both sides followed proper military custom. If indeed military or some other uniformed force is conducting these atrocities, they become legitimate targets in any recognized military operation, including ambushes and snipers.

Abortion doctors are not combatants and so they cannot be considered legitimate targets. Killing an abortion doctor is just as evil as killing any other innocent person.

 

[padrepio_2012]

it is never right to kill anyone unless your own life or that of someone you love is being threatened. even then, your intent should NOT be to kill but to defend yourself and to only injure the attacker or to disarm him. remember that “those who live by the sword shall die by it” and “that two wrongs dont make a right”, and as Ghandhi says, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. so you could not kill an abortion “doctor” even if you know he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of babies

i also dont think that it would be right to kill a nazi just because he is a nazi who fights for an army that does unjust things. one could not just walk up to a nazi and shoot him because he was a nazi. that is unjust. only kill when most necessary, and even then like i said, our intent should not be to kill but to defend. remember that our own pope was forced into service for the nazi’s. does it make it right to kill him since he, although unwilllingly. fought for the enemy side? we must remember that every person has dignity and value, even if they be immoral. it is not our right to judge their state in life.

 

[Bezant]

I have read this article and it is quite informative about why killing abortionists is not justified.
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/KILLJUST.TXT
However, I still am slightly confused about one issue. I don’t see how killing an abortionist who is on his way to a clinic is any different from killing some Nazi officers on their way to their offices. I saw a scene in a Polish film ‘General Nil’, and it shows the Polish resistance during WWII ambushing and killing a bunch of Nazi officers while they are coming out of a building and entering their cars.

I have heard the argument that killing Nazis was ok because it was a just war. But what if in America, the government started to round up disabled people and forcibly euthanising them? And if they also started killing some ethnic group in concentration camps? There would be no war, so would it be a sin to kill officers who are in charge of this murderous regime?

What do you think would happen if people were allowed to avenge crimes independently?

Vigilante justice is actually unjust. You have no right, as an individual, to deprive even a murderer of his right to life. The law is supposed to represent the community and provide an objective court to enforce and protect individual rights. If the law is wrong, the solution is to change it, not act outside of it.

 

[doormouse73]

i think that the only people who do/did the killing are the ones you mention in the post.abortionists and nazis .

now ask yourself this question,are all people in the two titles nazi/abotionist doing this job because they like it?agree with it?some were forced/pressured to work there.others brain washed…

i think you will find that in time the both will be found out,abortion is a branch of the nazi tree.
the nazi tree has many branches…and they are all at wrtk in todays society…little do people know…think about what the nazis did/doing and then look at todays society and see how acceptable those same things are.

but you cant go round killing people for there ideologies can you?

would you except communist ideology into you life?

nazi ideology in your life?

under the nazi ideology think away from race think more scientific, propaganda,ethics…

then look at what you believe in…

its a war with ideologies,start by looking at your own life first…

 

[fakename]

I have read this article and it is quite informative about why killing abortionists is not justified.
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/KILLJUST.TXT
However, I still am slightly confused about one issue. I don’t see how killing an abortionist who is on his way to a clinic is any different from killing some Nazi officers on their way to their offices. I saw a scene in a Polish film ‘General Nil’, and it shows the Polish resistance during WWII ambushing and killing a bunch of Nazi officers while they are coming out of a building and entering their cars.

I have heard the argument that killing Nazis was ok because it was a just war. But what if in America, the government started to round up disabled people and forcibly euthanising them? And if they also started killing some ethnic group in concentration camps? There would be no war, so would it be a sin to kill officers who are in charge of this murderous regime?

Let me just say, that the article presents a rather odd piece of moral reasoning when it attempts to derive a contradiction from the proposition “we can kill an abortionist in the parking lot”. The contradiction is that “we can then kill an abortionist on the golf course or anywhere else and yet we should not”. Why does it matter where a murderer is killed so long as justice is done? One can say that one should not judge a matter that should be left to the state, but I say that the state does not have the right to act contrary to right reason and clearly, it is more reasonable to eliminate a present danger than to prolong it into a future danger due to legal scruples. Likewise, the state would trespass against equity and allow more babies to die, for the reason that it cherishes its human laws over natural laws, and thereby mimics the ineffectiveness of the pharisees. Seriously, if anyone can explain why the above is a contradiction I would be grateful.

The real reason we shouldn’t do anything (for the most part) is that tyrants have all the guns and the popular support of pacifistic thinking, and so we would probably loose in a battle of abortionist vs anti-abortionists.