The divine person died literally

[mommyjong]

PLEASE HELP… WE NEED A STRAIGHTFORWARD ANSWER.

We all believe that God died in his human nature or as man.

BUT this question have caused a big fraction in the organization. i joined the organization for almost a year now and it seems that no one have done extra mile to resolve it. The fraction keeps on increasing, debate after debate. one priest says one thing, the other says another thing. one bishop says one thing, other bishop says another thing.

PLEASE HELP… WE NEED A STRAIGHTFORWARD ANSWER.

This statement “God Died” should be interpreted LITERALLY or FIGURATIVELY?<<<

i need answer from any of the CA speaker please please please please

my facebook is Peter Pedro

 

[leonhardprintz]

I can see why you get multiple questions, because it depends on what you mean. But at any rate the sentence should be understood the way you said it originally “God in his humanity died”, whether that is understood literally or figuratively, depends on how ‘died’ is used.

If ‘God died’ is used in reference to Christ’s humanity, it should be understood literally.

If ‘God died’ is used in reference to God proper, then it should be understood figuratively, since its impossible for the divine nature to undergo change, and therefore to die.

I hope that helps. Seems like an odd thing to tear up a community. Honestly I’m having trouble believing that this is happening.

 

[mommyjong]

my facebook account is Peter Pedro.

i joined the organization of Catholic Faith defenders early last year and i heard about the issue, the call it “God died” but i did not really bother, coz i myself found it silly since they all are into these things. but in the later part of last year, i found out that it has gone worse and no one seems to be putting extra mile to help us settle the matter. priest says one thing and another priest says another thing. one bishop says one thing and another bishop says another thing. i really wish someone can help me make a call at CA and the call must be recorded, you know like that of the CA live, they all use the same references but their conclusion are not the same… 1) Divine person died literally 2) Divine person died figuratively 3) God died literally 4 God died figuratively

1. Is it a correct understanding of the Catholic Faith to say that when Jesus suffered and died that only his human nature suffered and died and not the divine person?’

Answer: No, it is not correct. When the Lord Jesus Christ died, it is proper to say that God died. The reason is this: the subject of the actions of Jesus is the divine Person (i.e., God). Nature” – in Metaphysics – is the “principle of operation”; the subject (“suppositum”, the subject of operation) is always the person (in rational beings).

IS IT A YES OR NO?

for those who says NO… they conclude that it is the divine person who died and literally died, not figurative

for those who says YES… they conclude that the divine person cannot die literally

 

[Tis_Bearself]

First of all, I do not know what “organization” you’re posting about here, but it sounds like a bizarre group if they’re all hung up on an issue like this and I would definitely think twice about being involved with them.

Second, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but CA Forum does not have actual CAF apologists on it. You are asking this question on here to a bunch of ordinary Internet posters - a couple of priests and religious but mostly just ordinary laypeople - who post here. There are no professional CAF apologists on here these days. So if you’re looking to get a “definitive answer” from Catholic Answers apologists, you’ll need to call into one of their shows or something. We’re just ordinary Catholics here.

Third, to address your question. God doesn’t die. He is eternal. If God could die, we would not have literally dozens of Catholic prayers used at Mass that refer to the “ever-living God”.

When Jesus died, the person of Jesus Christ, who is the second person of the Trinity, experienced human, bodily, earthly death. Obviously he was still alive in a non-human form during the whole three days his body lay in the tomb, since during that time he descended into Hell and opened the gates of Heaven for the righteous dead who had been waiting for him to do that. The other two persons of the Trinity, namely God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, were completely unchanged while Christ was undergoing human, bodily, earthly death for 3 days.

Therefore, it is proper to say that Jesus Christ, the second person of the Holy Trinity, experienced human bodily death for 3 days.
It is not proper and is grossly overbroad to say that “God died”. God is incapable of dying.

 

[TechieGuy]

My sincere suggestion…Don’t worry about it…

Love God, love your neighbor. That should be enough to keep you occupied.

 

[mommyjong]

thanks, but i thought CA will reply here. well i didnt know that. I wish i can call but im not from usa, im from Philippines. can someone help me to call them for me?

 

[Wesrock]

PLEASE HELP… WE NEED A STRAIGHTFORWARD ANSWER.

We all believe that God died in his human nature or as man.

BUT this question have caused a big fraction in the organization. i joined the organization for almost a year now and it seems that no one have done extra mile to resolve it. The fraction keeps on increasing, debate after debate. one priest says one thing, the other says another thing. one bishop says one thing, other bishop says another thing.

PLEASE HELP… WE NEED A STRAIGHTFORWARD ANSWER.

This statement “God Died” should be interpreted LITERALLY or FIGURATIVELY?<<<

Jesus is God.

Jesus died.

Therefore, God literally died.

Unlike a human body, though, the Divine Nature didn’t end or corrupt or perish. But it is still correct to say that God died. God died in the assumed human nature, but since Jesus died and Jesus is God, we can say that God died. Confusion seems to come from different interpretations of what is meant when it is said that “God died.”

 

[Dan_Defender]

Jesus (God) died in his human nature yes. But his divine nature cannot die. How could this have happened, it is a mystery.

 

[Gorgias]

If ‘God died’ is used in reference to God proper, then it should be understood figuratively, since its impossible for the divine nature to undergo change, and therefore to die.

I would say that it shouldn’t even be “understood figuratively”. God in His divinity cannot die.

Is it a correct understanding of the Catholic Faith to say that when Jesus suffered and died that only his human nature suffered and died and not the divine person?’

You’re mixing terms. On one hand, you’re asking about “Jesus’ human nature” and on the other hand, you’re contrasting that with “Jesus’ divine person”. You can see that this is ‘apples and oranges’, right?

So… no, it’s not true that “Jesus’ human nature died.” Rather, Jesus, the human person, died.

Jesus (God) died in his human nature yes.

Wrong. Jesus, a human person, died. It’s not his “nature” that died.

 

[ELCore]

Wrong. Jesus, a human person, died. It’s not his “nature” that died

No, a thousand times, no.

The person Jesus is a Divine Person, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, God the Son: there is no human person Jesus. This Divine Person incarnate experienced death in His human nature.

The Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon, Session 5 (October 22, 451):

He is not split or divided into two Persons, but he is one and the same only begotten Son, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as formerly the prophets and later Jesus Christ himself have taught us about him and has been handed down to us by the creed of the Fathers. (Denzinger 148 [30th ed.], 302 [43rd ed.])

Repeat: there is no human person Jesus; He is a Divine Person incarnate, in two natures, divine and human.

P.S. Dan_Defender did not say Jesus’s nature died: he said Jesus (God) died in His human nature, which is true.

 

[Gorgias]

Repeat: there is no human person Jesus; He is a Divine Person incarnate, in two natures, divine and human.

The human, Jesus, died. Period.

The second person of the Trinity did not.

Jesus is a human. It’s not his “nature” that died.

 

[AlbMagno]

Hahaha I love reviving christological debates that nearly splitted the Church for centuries!

The human Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity incarnated, who is God, so, God died.

 

[chessnerd321]

God died in that he experienced death, but you have to be careful. God was never dead in the sense people would interpret “God is dead”.

 

[Gorgias]

The human Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity incarnated, who is God, so, God died.

The problem comes not by saying “God died”, but by attempting to say that merely “a nature” died or that “God’s divine nature” died.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

thanks, but i thought CA will reply here. well i didnt know that.

It’s unfortunate that now you are going to get a dozen random Internet posters all arguing here and pretty much mirroring your original debate that you are likely having within your group.

I don’t think CAF apologists would give you one straight answer on this either.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

God died in that he experienced death, but you have to be careful. God was never dead in the sense people would interpret “God is dead”.

Yes, exactly.
Having lived through the whole “God is Dead” era when Time magazine had a cover reading “Is God Dead?” and the LDS missionaries would come to your door asking, “Do you believe God is Dead?” I’m not going to go around saying “God died.” People interpret that as “God ceased to exist” or “God became powerless” etc, none of which was the case even during the 3 days Jesus was in the tomb.

 

[Babaganoush]

Jesus is a divine person with a human and divine nature. The second person of the Trinity became man. That is the idea. The divine nature didn’t assume human nature; rather a divine person assumed human nature. Therefore it is proper to say God died, since it is a divine person.

 

[Babaganoush]

That is called nestorianism, and it was condemned by the council of Ephesus in 434. The council of Chalcedon taught the hypostatic union. The union of two natures in one divine person. The catholic teaching is that God died.

 

[Gorgias]

The union of two natures in one divine person. The catholic teaching is that God died.

So… you’re saying that Jesus’ divine nature died?

 

[Wesrock]

Gorgias, I believe Babaganoush has the right of it here. Would you ask if Jesus’ Divine Nature was born? Just as people are born and not natures, people die, not their natures. If we can understand that Jesus was born through his human nature, so we can understand Jesus died through his human nature. In that context we can say “God was born,” “Mary is the Mother of God and God-bearer,” and “God died” and understand we don’t mean the Divine Nature ended.