The doctrine of the Trinity

[CatholicRoots]

I have a few questions about the Trinity that I would like to ask.

I’ve read very little on this doctrine and would like to start reading more upon it in the near future. I know what it is but I understand it very imperfectly and therefore as it is one of the principal, if not the most prime, dogmas of our faith I ought to know a little more about it.

Firstly, I read in Fr. Garrigou Lagranges book ‘Reality’ which commentates on Thomistic doctrines, about the Trinity and it said the only distinction between the Three persons of God, is that of opposite relation. Basically the only way we can distiniguish between Father, Son and Holy Spirit is that the Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Holy Spirit etc… this is becasue the Father generated the Son and both Father and Son, Spirated the Holy Spirit. I grasped this but it seems like the differentation between the 3 persons is too subtle. I always imagined the distinction to be greater so there was a functional (Thomism seems to say this is just ‘Appropriation’ basically a convenient human construct to differentiate) and personal (personality if you will) distinction between the 3.

Secondly, he says that perfect/infinte love is neccessarily self diffusive thus why God the Father communicated himself eternally to the Son and through the Son to the Holy Spirit. But why wouldn’t there be more persons in the Godhead if this was the case, ad infinitum? Also if the three persons all share the same essence how can they love one another as if they are seperate when it is just a return of the same love given?

I’m sorry for these complex questions and I know that it isn’t easier to answer them. But any help would be appreciated, does anybody know of any helpful Catholic works/tracts on the Trinity for a beginner. By the way I love the doctrine of the Trinity, I am not attacking it only seeking to understand it. Also this isn’t a criticism of Fr. Garrigou Lagrange, his works are great expositions of Catholic theology I think. May God Bless you.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

I am stumped.

What is it that you really need to know? What problem are you endeavoring to solve? What is your goal in connection to the Trinity doctrine?

Do you have doubts about the reality of the Trinity? Are you doubting everything? Are you doubting the Catholic Faith, wondering if it is consistent with the Bible? Are you just curious? Are you taking a theology class? Are you planning to teach a catechism class?

I will show my point of view (and perhaps my limits) with this quote from Thomas a Kempis:

“I would rather feel compunction, than know the definition of it.”

 

[johnnyjones]

I have a few questions about the Trinity that I would like to ask.

I’ve read very little on this doctrine and would like to start reading more upon it in the near future. I know what it is but I understand it very imperfectly and therefore as it is one of the principal, if not the most prime, dogmas of our faith I ought to know a little more about it.

Firstly, I read in Fr. Garrigou Lagranges book ‘Reality’ which commentates on Thomistic doctrines, about the Trinity and it said the only distinction between the Three persons of God, is that of opposite relation. Basically the only way we can distiniguish between Father, Son and Holy Spirit is that the Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Holy Spirit etc… this is becasue the Father generated the Son and both Father and Son, Spirated the Holy Spirit. I grasped this but it seems like the differentation between the 3 persons is too subtle. I always imagined the distinction to be greater so there was a functional (Thomism seems to say this is just ‘Appropriation’ basically a convenient human construct to differentiate) and personal (personality if you will) distinction between the 3.

Secondly, he says that perfect/infinte love is neccessarily self diffusive thus why God the Father communicated himself eternally to the Son and through the Son to the Holy Spirit. But why wouldn’t there be more persons in the Godhead if this was the case, ad infinitum? Also if the three persons all share the same essence how can they love one another as if they are seperate when it is just a return of the same love given?

I’m sorry for these complex questions and I know that it isn’t easier to answer them. But any help would be appreciated, does anybody know of any helpful Catholic works/tracts on the Trinity for a beginner. By the way I love the doctrine of the Trinity, I am not attacking it only seeking to understand it. Also this isn’t a criticism of Fr. Garrigou Lagrange, his works are great expositions of Catholic theology I think. May God Bless you.

For example purposes think of God as water (a universal substance). Water can be solid, liquid or vapor. Yet in all those forms, it is still water. God can manifest himself the same way.

An egg falls into the same category as well. Shell, yolk, white. It is still one entity existing together for purpose. These are examples in nature which interestingly God has provided for consideration. However they can never fully explain the trinity in all it’s glory and mystery.

 

[JimG]

I have a few questions about the Trinity that I would like to ask.

I’ve read very little on this doctrine and would like to start reading more upon it in the near future. I know what it is but I understand it very imperfectly and therefore as it is one of the principal, if not the most prime, dogmas of our faith I ought to know a little more about it.

Firstly, I read in Fr. Garrigou Lagranges book ‘Reality’ which commentates on Thomistic doctrines, about the Trinity and it said the only distinction between the Three persons of God, is that of opposite relation. Basically the only way we can distiniguish between Father, Son and Holy Spirit is that the Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Holy Spirit etc… this is becasue the Father generated the Son and both Father and Son, Spirated the Holy Spirit. I grasped this but it seems like the differentation between the 3 persons is too subtle. I always imagined the distinction to be greater so there was a functional (Thomism seems to say this is just ‘Appropriation’ basically a convenient human construct to differentiate) and personal (personality if you will) distinction between the 3.

Secondly, he says that perfect/infinte love is neccessarily self diffusive thus why God the Father communicated himself eternally to the Son and through the Son to the Holy Spirit. But why wouldn’t there be more persons in the Godhead if this was the case, ad infinitum? Also if the three persons all share the same essence how can they love one another as if they are seperate when it is just a return of the same love given?

I’m sorry for these complex questions and I know that it isn’t easier to answer them. But any help would be appreciated, does anybody know of any helpful Catholic works/tracts on the Trinity for a beginner. By the way I love the doctrine of the Trinity, I am not attacking it only seeking to understand it. Also this isn’t a criticism of Fr. Garrigou Lagrange, his works are great expositions of Catholic theology I think. May God Bless you.

Read this book. Your questions deserve a more in-depth consideration than can be given on an Internet forum.

The key point to keep in mind is the distinction between Person and Being. The Three Persons are not three distinct beings. God is one. There is only one divine essence, one divine nature.

God knows himself perfectly. God’s idea of himself is so perfect that the idea lacks nothing that is present in the original–not even personhood. The Father eternally knows himself and in so doing eternally generates the Son, not a distinct Being, but a distinct person. Father and Son love one another so perfectly that their love is itself a distinct person. But read Frank Sheed to ponder the matter better.

Your question about why there would not be more persons in the godhead is one that I once asked a theology professor. Since we do not and cannot know God perfectly, we cannot give a definitive answer except that this is what God has revealed about himself. My own thinking is that God’s knowledge and love is so exhaustively and eternally and perfectly expressed in the generation of Son and Spirit that no further persons are potential or possible. But that’s just me.

 

[fred_conty]

I would agree with Jimg, that Frank Sheed’s book, Theology for beginners, is good for this.
It is also very good at other explainations as well.