The documentary hypothesis

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You’ll have to provide a citation because I do not recall Jesus ever saying “Moses told you…”
Julia, I don’t understand why you wrote that Moses probably didn’t write anything; don’t you ever read the New Testament?

In John 5: 45-47, Jesus says:

“Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
 
Julia, I don’t understand why you wrote that Moses probably didn’t write anything; don’t you ever read the New Testament?"
Leave off the snide ad hom suggestions about my familiarity with Scripture. I already addressed this, above. Jesus is referring to Mosaic scripture in a way people can understand, not testifying that some man sat down and wrote out something.
MT 13:31-32 He proposed another parable to them. “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that a person took and sowed in a field. It is the smallest of all the seeds, yet when full-grown it is the largest of plants. It becomes a large bush, and the ‘birds of the sky come and dwell in its branches.’”
Again, Jesus is not making a statement of fact, is He? But He is saying something very definite, it’s not a toss away line: It is the smallest of all the seeds… It isn’t. And wasn’t.

There’s nothing to suggest that Moses ever wrote the Pentateuch because there isn’t anything to suggest he wrote the Pentateuch. There’s nothing in the account of his life to show he wrote these books. Anywhere. And I’m wondering why he is writing about himself in 3rd person, if I am to accept the suggestion that he wrote the books. And why he contradicts himself about the numbers of animals to put into the ark.

As I also said, the Church has real Scripture scholars way smarter than anyone in these threads and the Church subscribes to the multiple authorship. The Church precedes Scripture and only the Church interprets. You may believe what you wish on this topic. You may believe in a literal Garden if you wish, also. You may believe Mary died and then was assumed or that she didn’t die at all. The Church allows a lot of latitude for personal beliefs.

What neither you nor I may do, however, is make dogmatic pronouncements as if we know more and our personal beliefs should replace Church teaching. Now, I see no reason to go on repeating myself. I leave you with this from “The Pentateuch” in the Preface to the NAB,. you can find the full text here on the USCCB website.:
"The grandeur of this historic sweep is the result of a careful and complex joining of several historical tradition, or sources. These are primarily four: the so-called Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deuteronomic strands that run through the Pentateuch. …
This is not to deny the role of Moses in the development of the Pentateuch. ** It is true we do not conceive of him as the author of the books in the modern sense.** But there is no reason to doubt that, in the events described in these traditions, he has a uniquely important role, especially as law-giver…
If you have an argument with this, take it up with the Church.
 
I don’t think anyone has said it, so I will. The Church accepts the Torah (first five books of the Bible) as inspired and so they were defined as canonical, i.e., acceptable for reading during the liturgy (Mass).

The D-hyp is a research tool, to organize observations about the structure and content of these books of the Bible. as others have stated, the sole authorship of these books by Moses has been questioned, independently of the D-hyp, because the death of Moses is described in the book he supposedly authored, for one thing.
 
Twice now Julia you have mentioned the mustard seed as being reason to take everything Jesus said about Moses as allegory since after all the mustard seed is not the smallest seed and Jesus said it was, but there are many problems with this…
  1. To those whom He was speaking the mustard seed was the smallest seed and so He was accommodating them given their knowledge of that day. However this only proves that jesus accommodated them on this not on Moses or anything else.
  2. If we can make this allegorical rule however then why not also say that Jesus spoke allegorically about Jonah and the Flood? The reason why is because Jesus placed a standard on Himself NO prophet ever did. He said (in John) that He said nothing except what the Father gave Him to say. IOW when Jesus speaks you hear the Father who is truth. And so while we may argue for accommodation on certain points we must be incredibly careful of allegorizing everything Jesus ever said because God speaks no formal untruth.
  3. If Jesus is only speaking allegory then is He not also speaking allegorically about Heaven and His being with us always and this being His Body and Blood and Baptism saving us and one day His return for us to be with Him where He is forever? Of course you will say no because that would undo your faith and so you have special pleading for the parts of Scripture you like and not so much for the parts that disagree with your understanding of human scholarship.
And you see there is crux of the matter. You cannot pick and choose what you want to be allegory and what not because that is where the 18th and 19th C liberals started (who btw concocted the JDEP theory which falling rapidly out of favor in Biblical scholarship today) and where they wound up was a religion with no God.

So I am indifferent to what the Magisterium and the Popes have to say about this because, wise as they are, they are not inspired and neither are they infallible no matter what they arrogate to themselves. I know this because, as has been so clearly pointed out on this thread, they once believed the Earth to be the center of the universe and have since reversed themselves so no special pleading about infallibility for them either if you please.

However Scripture has never reversed itself, and that fact alone makes the Church’s claim that it precedes Scripture laughable, and Scripture is the only source that claims divine authority and so I will side with the words of Scripture and the words of Christ who confessed that Moses substantially wrote the Pentateuch.

And that if that offends I am pretty nonplussed about that too.

God Bless
 
Seriously Julia, after two millenia of tradition supporting Mosaic authorship for the Pentateuch I can’t understand why anyone would quickly believe and stubbornly hold on to a new, divergent teaching. Why not spend a little time investigating the evidence and arguments supporting Mosaic authorship? If you do, you might realize what a literary masterpiece the book of Genesis is. Below are a couple passages from ‘Before Abraham Was’ by Kikawada and Quin. It might help you to understand that it is simply absurd to think that Genesis, let alone the Pentateuch, was written by multiple authors.

Chapter 5 page 83-84

*"Genesis 1-11 may have been produced from divergent traditions. No one can deny that possibility with absolute certainty. But we can ask for the evidence on which the postulation of such divergent traditions is based. Clearly we lack extra-biblical evidence that would justify this postulation. We lack the kind of evidence for Genesis 1-11 that Jeffrey Tigay had in abundance for his developmental analysis of the Gilgamesh Epic. Indeed, the extra-biblical evidence we surveyed in chapter 2 seems to support a unitary approach to Genesis 1-11. Therefore, the documentary approach to Genesis 1-11 must stand or fall on internal evidence, evidence from within the text itself.

But what did we find when we looked at this internal evidence in the last chapter? We found an author with such complete mastery over his materials (whatever their source) that it makes no literary sense to speak of him as an editor. The evidence commonly used to show that Genesis 1-11 is a literary patchwork does in our opinion when closely examined and put in its proper context–support the view that Genesis 1-11 is a literary masterpiece by an author of extraordinary skill and subtlety. So much so, that when we think we find this author napping we had better proceed very carefully. As with Homer or Shakespeare, when you think you have seen something wrong, there may well be something wrong with your own eyes. You are more likely to be wrong than either of them.

Nonetheless, there has been an important omission in our discussion of internal evidence. As yet, we have had nothing to say about the detailed arguments for a documentary interpretation of the Noah story. And if the analyst has here decisive evidence for divergent traditions and the editorial process, he would have ample grounds for persisting in his approach to Genesis 1-11. And so the Noah story is crucial once again. Just as all would have been lost earlier had Wellhausen and others not come up with the documentary interpretation of Noah, so now all will be lost if this interpretation does not stand up under closer scrutiny. This time, however, the documentary hypothesis does drown in the flood.

Indeed, to tell the truth, we are not going to attempt an original analysis of the Noah story. Over the past decade the Wellhausen interpretation of Noah has been systematically dismantled by younger scholars. There have been at least a half dozen important contributions here. Typical of these critiques is the one made in F. I. Andersen’s The Sentence in Biblical Hebrew.

Sentences used in the present chapter cut across passages generally assigned to ‘J’ and ‘P’ documents. This means that if the documentary hypothesis is valid, some editor has put together scraps of parallel versions of the same story with scissors and paste, and yet has achieved a result which from the point of view of discourse grammar, looks as if it has been made out of whole cloth.

What Andersen has done from his own grammatical specialty, others have done from theirs. Objections to a unitary reading of Noah have, one after another, been explained, and objections to a documentary reading–apparently unanswerable objections-- have been, one after another, raised."*

In addition, why not take a little time to read Jimmy Akin’s excellent article ‘Who Wrote the Books of Moses?’
 
Can anyone here tell me whether the Pontifical Biblical Commission under Pope Pius X should be believed with the assent of Catholic faith or not?

June 27, 2006 they said that Moses was the author of the first five books of the bible.

Can anyone tell me why I shouldn’t believe the Pontifical Biblical Commission of 1906 with the religious assent of faith?

Did they have authority or not? Did they speak for the magisterium or not?

I want to know what the Catholic Church says–I care less for what individual scholars or individuals who post here think if the magisterium speaks otherwise.

Note folks–this is where the modernists have to come out and show themselves–they’ll have to maintain that the Pontifical Biblical Commission of 1906 had no authority when Pope Pius X DID in fact give them authority because he approved their findings because if they don’t then their position is indefensible.
 
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