The dumbest fight ever

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Princess_Abby

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Can I get a second opinion??? 🙂

This is probably the most ridiculous fight I’ve ever had with my husband.

We just moved a couple weeks ago. The third bedroom in our apartment is serving as a sort of a multi-purpose room. The closet is full of boxes we will not be unpacking; there is a bed and dresser, extra bookshelf, etc. However, it’s a very large third bedroom and my almost-two-year old neice will be using it to spend the night about once or twice a week. Her toys, baby bed and other items will also be kept in there. She is scheduled to spend the night this Saturday.

My husband has insisted that we salvage as many boxes as we can from our unpacking efforts. I personally wanted to either throw them away or give them to a recycling center; however, he feels it’s more “cost-effective” to save what we can and just stick them in the closet. Which is fine, except…the boxes were beginning to take over the room. Last weekend I asked him “if by Wednesday night” he could shove all the heavy boxes around in the closet to make room for the boxes HE wanted to save. There were some boxes spilling out of the closet that needed to be put away, but were too heavy for me to lift and he agreed to do it.

I reminded him each night that I needed the boxes to be finished by Wednesday night. My best friend was coming over to spend the day with me on Thursday (today) and I didn’t want her to see our new place for the first time with boxes everywhereeeeeeee. I also wanted to be SURE that everything was put away before Saturday so that I could have time to organize my neice’s things before she visits and spends the night.

We stopped by my parents house for an hour or two on Monday and Tuesday, then last night my husband took a nap when he got home from work while I ran four hours worth of errands. When I returned at 9:30pm, he had just woken up and was a little groggy. Before I had left, he said he was just going to take a small snooze and then wake up and attack the boxes in the third bedroom. However, they weren’t done when I got home, obviously.

Feeling more than a little irritated, I reminded him about our agreement and asked that he get started on it. He became defensive and said I only wanted the boxes done “for appearance sake.” Yes, that was partially true. But I also needed them done in order to organize our niece’s things.

An argument erupted over this ridiculousness, with me telling him I would simply throw the boxes away if it was too much of an effort for him to get it done that evening. He responded saying that if I threw boxes away that could be re-used, then I would have to return items I had purchased in order to “compensate” for “wasting money!”

I was completely outraged to hear him say something like that, as nothing even remotely close to that has ever come out of his mouth. I felt very threatened that he felt it was acceptable to arbitrarily decide I didn’t get to make needed purchases (things from Bed Bath & Beyond) simply because he didn’t meet the deadline he agreed to concerning the boxes being put away. He said I shouldn’t be allowed to make purchases with “no consequences” if I was going to “waste money.” I told him he was choosing to waste the money by choosing not to take care of what he promised to do in the timeframe I requested. He fails to see the correllation to my logic…

Just to clarify, we are not hard up for money. He has an amazing job with a wonderful salary and will still be consulting for his old company on the side. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why he is so adamant about saving these boxes, but I was fine with that–as long as I didn’t have to look at them day in and day out. (His response to that was that I should simply “close the door.”)

cont’d…
 
Okay. Am I the crazy one here? He says he isn’t apologizing until I say I’m sorry for “threatening” to throw out the boxes. He says it’s completely childish for me to give him a “consequence” for not finishing a task he agreed to do. He feels he should have been given until Saturday to finish the room, even though he agreed to Wednesday night. I think it totally annoyed him that I wanted the room clean before I showed my friend our new home for the first time. I realize that I am mad about the same thing–him imposing a “consequence” upon me, though I’m more upset that it feels totally unrelated to the issue and generally not very fair. We had talked about things we needed for the apartment and he agreed with me about making the purchases before I did so.

By the way, he did finish the room last night and it looks great. We aren’t not speaking or anything, we both are simply unwilling to concede that our position is wrong–something that has literally never happened before. We’ve had plenty of disagreements but generally one of us admits within minutes that our perspective is a little off.

So. I know if this is the only thing my husband and I have to fight about, we can’t be too bad off 😉 But I can’t decide if I’m seriously seeing the situation wrongly and I should never have said I would throw the boxes away. But what do the rest of you do when a spouse agrees to something and then doesn’t follow through? I admit that sometimes my behavioral training is almost a disadvantage–sometimes I become too “if you won’t do this, then you won’t get that.” He DID follow through, but honestly I think it was only because he was convinced I might actually throw the boxes away the next day… 🙂

I do not ask my husband to do many chores around the house. I only ask him to help with major things, like boxes I can’t lift. He is generally very helpful and will VOLUNTEER to do things like dishes or whatever else. I do not expect him to do so, however. He works VERY hard for both of us.

Ahhhhhhhhh. I don’t know why something as stupid as this is frustrating me so much, but it is. 🙂 I know we all say stupid things during fights, but that particular little nickel of “wisdom” that he spouted really made me mad. Any thoughts?
 
I am not genius enough to avoid fights like you describe, so I can’t say who’s right or whatever. But I can say that your husband could be sensitive to feeling like his stuff (or by some insane extension…he himself) is somehow shameful to you in front of your friends. If this is a possiblility that he is feeling this way, I strongly suggest avoiding giving him that impression.

Though, somehow this all turns on money as well. Maybe just because people are used to conflict over that issue so it just got turned into comfortable channels, or it could mean something real.

That he came back with the whole thing about you returning stuff to make up for the boxes could also indicate that, although he agreed to put away his boxes by the deadline, that somehow he was mad about you asking the deadline of him to begin with, but he didn’t express it except by not complying and napping instead.

Good luck. I hate fights like what you describe when they happen to me. I just wish it would all go away when it happens.:o
 
Well, you’re right, if that’s your worst argument, you’re not doing too badly!
My rule of thumb in arguments is choose my words very carefully. I focus on what I’ll do, not on what I want him to do.
Like, if the room isn’t cleared out by Wednesday, I won’t have time to organize our neice’s things.
That doesn’t really seem like a horrible problem, as a two year old won’t notice whether things are organized or not.

Adults don’t impose consequences on each other. If my husband said I “shouldn’t be allowed” to buy something, I’d ask him if there was a financial problem. All you can do is say what you’ll do – for example, if you wanted the house neat for your friend, you could say you’d put the boxes in the back yard.
Friends don’t usually expect people moving in to have everything put away immediately. I know people who moved months ago and still live out of boxes!
As far as apologizing, you could say, “I feel badly about our disagreement. I’m sorry I said anything to hurt your feelings.” That’s always safe and probably true, while not admitting guilt for the argument.

When my husband agrees to something and then doesn’t do it, I tell him how I feel. Frustrated, ignored, put down . . whatever fits. Then he usually tries to repair the damage, because he wants to help me out as much as possible.
Hope my opinion helps a little.
 
Pug,

Thanks for your response. 🙂 My husband tends to think I’m overly conscious about a home being clean and presentable. However, it’s not that I want the house to be perfect, it’s just that I FEEL better when things are put away and in good order. He usually is like that too, sometimes even more so. But he likes doing it for himself (or me), and not because I want it to look nice for someone else. (meaning, my friend.)

By the way… I got to keep everything I purchased 😉 He’s never made me return anything before, ever, or even hinted about it, so that’s why it was so surprising to me.

I think you’re probably right about the deadline. He said several times (AFTER the deadline, of course) that he found it annoying. However, I rarely give “deadlines”…I just wanted it to be finished by Wednesday night.

Thanks for reminding me that we all have dumb little fights like this. 🙂 My husband and I usually get along very well so it’s very unsettling when we disagree about something, especially something so…dumb.

🙂
 
Really, seriously, if this is the biggest thing you have to fight about, consider yourself lucky.

I’m not going to get into who’s right or wrong, but . . . it is impossible to win a marital argument. If you lose, you lose. If your spouse loses, you lose too–because one of you is not happy, and that’s not good for your marriage.

What do you do if your spouse agrees to something but doesn’t follow through? I wish I knew the answer to that one. I married a pack rat, and we had a pre-marital agreement that he would keep all his stuff in one room. I was promised a nice, neat house. We will be married 16 years tomorrow, and I’m still waiting for that nice, neat house. It is impossible to look anywhere in my house, even at the ceiling, and not see a pile of his clutter in your peripheral vision. He has hundreds of records and CDs in the livingroom, the kitchen, the bedroom, the lavatory (yup, even there!) There’s a pile in the garage that goes from end to end and up to the ceiling. I have to squeeze past it to get to the washer and dryer. I live with this every day, year after year.

Boy, do I wish I only had to put up with some extra boxes.
 
Don’t worry, you’ll fight about something even dumber sometime, I’m sure!!! :love:

I completely agree with you about a clean or orderly environment. It can reflect how we feel, but most often it affects how we feel.
 
It is not the dumbest fight ever.
It’s a common fight.
And it is soooo not about the boxes.
Most arguments aren’t about what triggered the outburst.
The triggers go to the core of underlying issues.

You and your husband have control issues, like about 90% of most married couples. Learn how to discuss the underlying issues and you’ll avoid many future arguments.
 
Okay ladies, thank you very much. 🙂 You have all made me feel better.

We just had a good ten minute discussion and both agreed we weren’t being very fair nor very kind to one another.

And yes, YYM, you’re right, we do have control issues. 🙂 (We call it fighting about topics and not issues. I think that’s a Dr. Phil thing…but yes, you’re right, it wasn’t about the boxes at all. I was hurt he didn’t do something I had specifically asked, and he was hurt I wasn’t respecting his request to keep the boxes and not feeling compassionate about his being tired from work.)

Vicki-- thank you for the pragmatic suggestions and perspective.

Kay Cee–thank you for sharing your own clutter woes! 🙂
 
Hey Princess_Abby,

Well, I’ve been down that road many times over the years.

You see, I’m a pack-rat and my wife is a neat-freak. I truly understand your husbands desire to save those ‘good’ boxes. I like boxes, too. Like you, I could buy a box store, if I wanted. It’s not the money, it’s the thought of throwing away those perfectly good boxes, or whatever. On the other hand, my wife is the ‘throw-away master’. She hates clutter, and likes things organized and neat. It’s a tough blend to make, not unlike oil and water, but it can be done.

You’ll have to understand that there will be certain things he’ll want to save. Things that will likely make no sense to you. He will have to come to grips with your neatness and disdain for clutter. There will have to be some kind of compromise.

I couldn’t help but notice that you agreed that the boxes will be out by Wednesday. It appears that you agreed for him. Did he really agree to that, or was he ‘told’ to agree to that?

I don’t know how long you’ve been married, but I’ve been married over 20 years, and it’s just now getting to the point where we can tolerate our differences. Actually, I secretly like things neat and orderly, but I will always like to have my ‘stuff’ around.

We lucky to have a pretty big house. She controls the inside, so it’s immaculate, but I get to have partial clutter in my office. She will sometimes ‘straighten’ it. I have to be gone, or I stress-out. But except for finding things again, I’m usually pleased with the results. The same partial clutter is OK in the garage, as long as her car will fit, and the attic is all mine. Boxes and boxes of airplane parts stuffed to the rafters. If I have three of an item, I still need another.

Try not to make a big deal out of his boxes. Let him keep 'em. Try to figure out what stuff he’s attached to, and just go along. And don’t ‘agree’ on stuff for him. Is it a dumb fight? Easy for me to say, sure it was. But I’m the guy who fought to keep propellers in the spare bedroom.
 
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cargopilot:
Hey Princess_Abby,

Well, I’ve been down that road many times over the years.

You see, I’m a pack-rat and my wife is a neat-freak. I truly understand your husbands desire to save those ‘good’ boxes. I like boxes, too. Like you, I could buy a box store, if I wanted. It’s not the money, it’s the thought of throwing away those perfectly good boxes, or whatever. On the other hand, my wife is the ‘throw-away master’. She hates clutter, and likes things organized and neat. It’s a tough blend to make, not unlike oil and water, but it can be done.

You’ll have to understand that there will be certain things he’ll want to save. Things that will likely make no sense to you. He will have to come to grips with your neatness and disdain for clutter. There will have to be some kind of compromise.

I couldn’t help but notice that you agreed that the boxes will be out by Wednesday. It appears that you agreed for him. Did he really agree to that, or was he ‘told’ to agree to that?

I don’t know how long you’ve been married, but I’ve been married over 20 years, and it’s just now getting to the point where we can tolerate our differences. Actually, I secretly like things neat and orderly, but I will always like to have my ‘stuff’ around.

We lucky to have a pretty big house. She controls the inside, so it’s immaculate, but I get to have partial clutter in my office. She will sometimes ‘straighten’ it. I have to be gone, or I stress-out. But except for finding things again, I’m usually pleased with the results. The same partial clutter is OK in the garage, as long as her car will fit, and the attic is all mine. Boxes and boxes of airplane parts stuffed to the rafters. If I have three of an item, I still need another.

Try not to make a big deal out of his boxes. Let him keep 'em. Try to figure out what stuff he’s attached to, and just go along. And don’t ‘agree’ on stuff for him. Is it a dumb fight? Easy for me to say, sure it was. But I’m the guy who fought to keep propellers in the spare bedroom.
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Thank you for your perspective, cargopilot. 🙂 We are 25 and have been married two years (in August). As soon as I think "okay, we’ve totally ‘arrived’! we are the masters of compromise! we are the exception to every rule! we love each other so much that the stupid fights have disappeared!’…we end up having a completely dumb misunderstanding like the one I detailed in this thread. 🙂 Fortunately it doesn’t happen too often. I guess God really wants to keep me humble.

As for the boxes having to be out by Wednesday… 🙂 I just wanted them in the closet by Wednesday. Out of my vision and out of any visitor’s vision. I’m not talking about a few boxes. I’m talking about six wardrobe boxes (the huge kind that are bigger and taller than most any individual person) and several smaller boxes…everywhere. I just wanted them cleaned up. But you’re right, my husband had zero desire for them to be put away by Wednesday night, and was supremely annoyed that
I felt it necessary to have my entire house clean for a friend I’ve known my entire life and would of course not care a single cent if my house wasn’t clean… but still! he agreed! 🙂

He has started his new job and been working like a maniac, so I think I was probably a little demanding to expect him to do a major cleaning job mid-week (or Sunday night, his other alternative). However, I literally could only walk INTO the room but not AROUND the room… anyway, he did finish it, it took him merely around 30 minutes and made me a very happy wife!

We have a three bedroom apartment, but we haven’t bought a house yet and therefore while we have about 1400 sq feet, it certainly is not tons and tons of room. We are not unpacking TOO much because we want to be able to move more swiftly next time, which will of course be the house purchase. More room! yay…

Anyway, thank you very much for the guy’s perspective! 😉 My husband is actually a very generous and extremely patient person who would jump to make me happy, but even he can get a little fed up with my “requests” at times. 🙂
 
Abby–I have been married 20 years. Like you, my husband and I rarely have arguments which is why I get upset when we do. My husband is one of the most agreeable people around. He reacts very negatively to what he views as demanding requests. Of course, I think I am entirely reasonable to get irritable when I do but he reacts as your husband does. So I would encourage you to consider whether you were coming across as demanding, and more like a mother or boss rather than a caring, loving wife. It is all in the perception, no matter what your intention or provocation.
 
Just to add my 2 cents (from a male perspective). Men tend to be thick headed (I know), and their operational grapple with empathy comes across as “If it works for me, why doesn’t it work for you?”, and tend toward path of least resistance.

Suggestion (compliments of my DW technique), is to introduce a relevent/meaningful analogy or word picture. I never quite got it that my DW wanted a complete home makeover whenever I invited my family over for a visit, no matter how informal, casual. She finally helped me to see that her clean and orderly house is a perception extension of herself to others, when she made the correlation of how I tidy up my woodshop garage when visitors are expected over who may venture into this domain of mine. Light bulb on. Now, in this area, it is more of a mutual honoring of each other now that we have this ready mutual reference for the empathy factor at hand.
 
I’ve heard of much dumber fights.

In any case, my bet is that the “issue” is not the cause of the fight. The real cause is just the stress from the move.

Just a guess.
 
Hey, Abby,

You’ve always struck me as a very level-headed woman with a good marriage (from what I can glean from your posts). Further, having just moved to DC with my husband, living in a crowded room of boxes, it seems to me that perhaps stress from all your own moving/job changes must have fueled this fight.

If you guys haven’t had a fight like this before, I would guess it’s not about the boxes at all, and owes far more to other worries. These could include money (even if you’re well off, moving is so expensive, you keep mentally calculating everything) or about control regarding who sets up the new house, et…

At a later time, if it’s not too inflammatory, try teasing your husband a bit regarding why the boxes were so important to him (it IS a bit baffling!). Perhaps refusing to move them was some kind of unfair test of you, sparked by his frustration over what he may perceive as your “demands” in general. Try and coax out his reasons if he’s not forthcoming.

Don’t let it come between you, even for a day. Tell him it’s hurtful when he dismisses an important concern of yours such as this, but then be willing to apologize for any part you many have played in the fight.

My very best wishes to you both, and also for your new location/house/job etc. etc.!!
  • a fellow mover…
 
hi maendem!

my husband found it very hilarious that i even bothered posting about something like this, but it actually made him take a second look at the ‘fight,’ too.

he moved here for me, basically, and for our future family. it is where i grew up and where my parents and most of my siblings still live. i think i have somewhat underestimated how stressful leaving all his family and friends behind has been for him. and you’re right, the move WAS extremely expensive, with only about half of it covered by the new company. i tend to be realistic about our finances; he tends to be slightly more cautious and always prepared for the worst “just in case.” 🙂

we have talked about the boxes and he agrees it was more about my being insensitive towards how stressed he is with a new job, juggling long-distance consulting and missing friends and family. he gently said that i am “not normally so insensitive” to what is needs are, and he felt a bit put out that i was “so ultra concerned” with my friend and neice, as well as my own little…schedule…over him. we also hadn’t spent any time together that night and he said he also just wanted to relax first.

oh…and he also apologized several times for his comments about my returning stuff. 😉

anyway, we normally have a very light-hearted relationship and his warning phrase is, “sweetpea, you’re getting intense” whenever i start “worrying about details,” as he puts it.

thanks to everyone for their insight! we’re fine. 🙂
 
This is a silly question, but… where those cardboard boxes? If so, you can break down cardboard boxes into flat squares that make them easier to store. I don’t know if you and your husband considered this, but it is what we do. My hubby is in the military and we have moved many times.
 
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deb1:
This is a silly question, but… where those cardboard boxes? If so, you can break down cardboard boxes into flat squares that make them easier to store. I don’t know if you and your husband considered this, but it is what we do. My hubby is in the military and we have moved many times.
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yep, they’re broken down 🙂

wardrobe boxes are HUGe, though. like, big enough to fit two or three adults inside. 🙂
 
Hi princess abby…you’re right! 😃 But, I’m biased. My husband and I rarely fight, but when we do, every three or four months or so, its usually about something like boxes. My husband is terrible about doing things I ask him to do. I’ve left notes, emailed, nagged, just done it myself, written it on the chalkboard, etc. It’s usually something stupid, like tightening the legs on the chairs that he finally did this week because I asked him to do it right that moment (it had been on the chalkboard for 6 months). My husband just has a bad memory (…selective memory) when it comes to chores. He’s otherwise very willing to help out and quite handy…but anyway, this doesn’t seem to be am habitual problem at your house like it is mine. The point is, that it hurts my feelings when he forgets to do these things. I feel like what I am needing or wanting does not matter, but everything else in our marriage suggests that is not at all true. I just have to accept that he has a terrible memory for anything that doesn’t have to do with cars or history. :rolleyes:

Well, that probably didn’t hep you any, but I can always vent about the only problem in my marriage…we’re doing pretty good. 👍
 
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