The early church

[prodromos]

1. Cardinals Humbert and Frederick were under the authority of the Pope to negotiate with the Patriarch of Constantinople. They were NOT under his authority to excommunicate him (the Pope was already dead).

And yet the excommunication stood and was accepted as valid by every subsequent pope until it was finally lifted by Pope Paul VI in 1965. For a ‘non-authoritative’ document it certainly carried a lot of weight. You’d think Pope Stephen X (formerly Cardinal Frederick) would have done something about it seeing as he was one of the legates who had served the Bull of Excommunication, but apparently he believed it to be authoritative despite Pope Leo IX having died.

I’m afraid I find the argument that the Bull was not valid unconvincing to say the least.

John

 

[JRKH]

And yet the excommunication stood and was accepted as valid by every subsequent pope until it was finally lifted by Pope Paul VI in 1965. For a ‘non-authoritative’ document it certainly carried a lot of weight. You’d think Pope Stephen X (formerly Cardinal Frederick) would have done something about it seeing as he was one of the legates who had served the Bull of Excommunication, but apparently he believed it to be authoritative despite Pope Leo IX having died.

I’m afraid I find the argument that the Bull was not valid unconvincing to say the least.

John

Gotta give you a touche here.
Just to step out of the tit-for-tat of the last few of posts here, I think that you and teflon have both hit on the same important issue. The point of how people over time can cause a relatively minor issue into a major one. Then succeeding generations just harden their respective positions. The result is that something that might have been resolved relatively easily at the time is now this big bug-a-boo that no one seems to be able to get over or around.
How sad for the Body of our Dear Lord to suffer because the “Right Lung” seems at odds with the “Left Lung”. Surely can’t help our Lord’s breathing.

I was just reminded of a couple of lines from the movie “On Golden Pond”.
In it, the Daughter, Chelsea, is trying to make a raproachmont to Her Dad, Norman. The exchange goes like this.

Chelsea: It just seems like we’ve been mad at each other for so long…
Norman: I didn’t think we were mad; I just thought we didn’t like each other.

Maybe if East and West could just forget about all the “History” etc, we too could have the kind of relationship that our Dear Lord wishes for us.

May God help us to tear down our walls and use the stones to build bridges.

Peace
James

 

[Soutane]

Others fell away as expected because Christ promised there would be branches which bore no fruit. They cherished the easy path of schism over the difficult one of unity. From the beginning, overweening pride and a lack of obedience have been the downfall of Man.

The Bride of Christ is always under attack, for Holy Mother Church is not of this world.

Christ took his Bride in 33 A.D. and abides with her still. Indeed, to be familiar with history is to understand how impossible it was that she should have survived at all from that day to this, given the complete absence of temporal power she has been able to call upon since the sack of Rome in the 5th century. It is her enemies who yoke themselves to temporal princes to ensure their survival. The Catholic Church is sustained by the Bridegroom alone.

Thank you so much for writing something so full of the truth,profound and succinct.

 

[Teflon93]

Thank you so much for writing something so full of the truth,profound and succinct.

Thank you–you’re very kind.

I wish I could claim credit but it’s nothing more than a summary of Church teaching from Catholics on this forum. Like so much of the bounty a convert to the Church finds, it was there long before we came along and will remain long after we are gone.

THAT is the history which is truly worth bearing foremost in mind.