The Existence of other gods: My predicament

[Kevin_Walker]

kyle8921:

If God is infinite, and we aren’t infinite, than he must’ve done things before we existed, or else he just was and did nothing.

O.K. let us adopt physics as an analogy and the fact that motion implies a mover, and to avoid an infinite regress, we must posit an unmoved mover! An unmoved mover cannot be corporeal (i.e. have a physical body with blood, guts, fingernails, etc.), therefore it is a Spiritual Being whom can be called GOD. For none but a pure spirit can have an infinite force such as is found in the eternal motion of the universe, hence that pure spirit can be called God. So if nothing can move itself, and the universe was created, hence creation implies a creator and that creator is God. Time cannot exist without motion and moving things (Time is just a measurement of one movement to the next), hence before motion there was no time. Since God created motion and the world, so God can be eternal because he is not subject to time.

Something must have caused him to create us, and that something must have come from an outside source, meaning there are other beings besides God!

So why did God create the universe and everything in it? Nothing caused God to create anything. God wished to demonstrate his wisdom, and his goodness prompted him to benefit his creatures by enabling them to be conscious of his existence: God is living, omnipotent, and omniscient.

God is eternal, because the only other alternative is that he is created. But if God was created, then there is another creator who also must have been created. Then that creator must have been created so on and so forth for eternity. This is an infinite regress. We must therefore have an eternal creator somewhere, and that eternal creator is God.

There is only ONE God, for if God is omnipotent through power, and power was created, then God must have had power in order to create it, hence was powerful not through power. If power is eternal, then we have more than one God, but then we have the problem of the infinite regress again of a creator creating another creator etc. etc. … hence there must be only one all-powerful God. Those who believe in many Gods the *onus probandi *is upon them to prove it!

A perfect, infinite being does not one day decide to create an entire world and universe without an outside source altering that perfection, or at least thought.

A perfect infinite being such as God stands unaffected by time and is thus without pressure from any outside force he hasn’t yet created, that perfect infinite being in his widsom can decide at his leisure when to create anything and God did decide at Genesis! The creations of a perfect being are not by necessity perfect as suggested by Genesis 28, 13 “And behold the Lord stood above it,” and it is so far beyond the limits of our language and intellect to comprehend the will of God, we can only observe and infer and worship him through prayers and every Sunday at Mass.

 

[trailblazer]

All these answers are well and good. Frankly, I liked MOM of 5’s answer. Basically, how can finite beings such as we are even begin to understand the infinite. We can try. Yet we musy accept our limitations. When I was young, I often heard the term, “Divine Mystery.” I couldn’t accept that then, but now that I an older (not necessarily wiser), I believe that some things are “Divine mysteries” and must be accepted on faith. Good luck! I hope you eventually find peace with God’s infinity because I sure do not think you’ll find an answer in this life!

 

[msh]

kyle8921:

If God is infinite, and we aren’t infinite…

A perfect, infinite being does not one day decide to create an entire world and universe without an outside source altering that perfection, or at least thought.

One of the responses I can come up with is:

If God is infinite, and we are not and if God is perfect, and we are not, then how can we ever purport to know what He can and cannot do? What He can and cannot think? A perfect being does not need to debate within himself if we are working off the notion that a perfect being knows all, does all, is all. He does because He does. He creates because He creates. It is part of Him, it is what He is, it is why He is.

Perfection just exists. Infinite beings just exist. They do as they do, because it’s them. They don’t subscribe to our definitions of Time, Law, Substance. They just are these things. Whether His definitions are the same as we create for ourselves is immaterial, as all that matters are His.

It is not up to us to fully understand the why, though we may desire it deeply. We are not infinite nor perfect like He. We couldn’t begin to comprehend it in the states we exist in. This is why we are not our own gods.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

On the other hand, other than the use of reason for the existance of only one God, Christians have the Bible, revelation, the prophets, our Priests, and faith.

 

[RSiscoe]

kyle8921:

Even if he “just is,” what caused him to “do?” It must have been an outside source, right? Something that “is” is unchangeable. If you leave a rock that “just is” on the ground and nothing comes along to change it, that rock will continue to “just be.”

What caused God to create us did not come from outside of God, but from His very self. God created us out of love. God’s love is not a selfish love, but a giving love. He wanted to share His infinite love with others; He wanted them to be able to share in His happiness. That is why He created the angels and men: to enable them to share in His love.

I could go on, but that is the answer to your question.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

kyle8921:

If God is infinite, and we aren’t infinite, than he must’ve done things before we existed, or else he just was and did nothing.

Something must have caused him to create us, and that something must have come from an outside source, meaning there are other beings besides God!

A perfect, infinite being does not one day decide to create an entire world and universe without an outside source altering that perfection, or at least thought.

Can someone help me out here?

This is a false dilemma ​

There was no “before”, before creation, because time and space were created together: time has no existence outside creation.

God created us, because He has no need of us - He creates out of Love, because that is Who He Is. Creation, expresses the Creator - within limits. IOW, creation involves limitation: not because God is limited, but because we are. To love a thing into being, is a work of infinite power and infinite goodness; it bridges the difference between Almighty God, and being a creature. God’s Being, is what God does (as it were) - creation, is not a change in God; it is a change for what is created, so that it comes from nothingness, into being. “Before” a creature is, there is no relation of Divine Love to created love - once a creature comes into being, that relation exists. There is a change - but in us and our relation to God: not in God.

Creation is a terminus for God’s Love. God is Love - and we know from earthly experience that Love (or on earth, people who love) is always looking for new ways to express itself, new ways to pour itself out, new things to love. Because love is active, it is ever-creative, it is unwearying, it is always spreading itself around; in fact, the more real the love, the more ingenious it is in finding things to love. It is like a forest fire: the more that has been burnt, the more the fire rages - the more it burns things up, the fiercer it becomes.

And this human love and loving, is a shadow or trace - however faint - of the Infinite and Eternal Love of God: because man is made in God’s image.

So with God - God’s Love is a forest-fire which is always at full blast; it is never increasing, because it can neither decrease nor increase. All it can do, is love God: or love created things - no other beings exist; for all things are either created, or, the Creator. So God loves Himself perfectly - and where the Trinity is so “lucky”, is that the Divine Persons, because each one is God, can both love perfectly, and receive perfectly: each of them is infinitely God-filled, God-indwelt.

Creatures are different; they cannot give or receive love perfectly, because even all possible and actual creatures cannot love God adequately - they are non-Infinite. They can be as full of God as their being what they are allows, just a mug can be as full of water as it can be, but not as full as the Pacific is. The Pacific could always be larger; so could the earth. So there is no ideal ocean, infinitely full of water - just as no creature can be.

When someone writes a book, he is being God-like on a small scale: he is creating, and he has a life outside his book. The book is the terminus of his activity, the “place” in which it is at work - and the characters in it, might wonder what the writer was doing before he created them and the book they are in. He transcends it - God transcends creation. That’s not a perfect comparison - none exists - because God’s creative power upholds both the writer & the characters. Both God and the writer are “putting themselves into” what they create.

So God’s creative act is simply an application of His eternal and single & timeless Love to creatures: and, as they are *not *eternal, this One Eternal Divine Love is experienced as though it were broken up, successive: we experience it through the prism of our createdness - being ourselves limited, we see God as though God were limited, by time, space, etc. We know in part, & we see in part, as St. Paul says - but God is Infinite in Knowledge, Wisdom, and Love. ##