L
LoyalViews
Guest
Where is the interview – link it…
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V
VitaminC
Guest
I already gave the citation. There is no link.Where is the interview – link it…
L
Like
Guest
I do agree that your sources are citation, some of which are tough in locating to verify.I already gave the citation. There is no link.
Anyway, here is a citation for you WITH A LINK.
Father Nicholas Nightingale Gruner, Publisher of “The Fatima Crusader” Magazine and Director of an Apostolate entitled: “The International Fatima Rosary Crusade” portrays himself as a persecuted victim of the bureaucracy of Rome, and pretends to his listeners that his case is still being reviewed by the Pope, himself. This claim leaves his readers to believe that he is still a priest with faculties to offer the Mass and the Sacraments. The purpose of this article is to show the truth about Father Gruner, and to use this as an example of how easy it is for people to be fooled by fancy words surrounded with orthodox stories and beautiful icons.
It is so easy to copy and paste.
unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/FATHER%20NICHOLAS%20GRUNER.html
---------------------------------------------
It is impossible to debate this issue with one who is/has been brain washed with this (EX) Fr. Gruner (Ital) as being the faithful one & that Sr. Lucy, JPII, BXVI, Cardinals & Bishops are the unfaithful Catholics.
I’m going along with Thomas jd on this one,
This is my last post on this thread.
I do pray & hope you find & accept the TRUTH on this issue.
God bless!
R
RSD
Guest
Frankly, I don’t know enough about all these details to have any views about some of the fuss that is going on here. I looked at this thread because I am interested in Fatima. But- When I read about Fatima, and when I went there, I was deeply inspired by the way these children responded to Our Lady, and to her command to make sacrifices for sinners. Somehow I have the impression that this controversy is not staying close to the original message. Do you know any Catholics who are deeply concerned about which days they are allowed to eat meat, but are not interested in which days they are supposed to be forgiving to the people in their lives?
E
Erin_Anne
Guest
The debate over the 3rd Secret has been a topic of discussion on Relevant Radio the last couple days. I’m not going to comment on it because I’m still researching, but if you’re interested in hearing the archives: www.relevantradio.com
Dr. Miravalle addresed the subject on the Drew Mariani show yesterday.
Erin-Anne :shamrock2:
Dr. Miravalle addresed the subject on the Drew Mariani show yesterday.
Erin-Anne :shamrock2:
V
VitaminC
Guest
Cd. Ratzinger himself approved Akita as worthy of belief. The main apparition occurred on the anniversary of the main Fatima apparition.Somehow I have the impression that this controversy is not staying close to the original message.
From Akita message:
*As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms that will remain for you will be the Rosary and Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the pope, the bishops, and the priests.
The work of the devil will infiltrate even the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their conferees…churches and altars sacked, the Church will be full of those who accept compromise and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord. The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of My sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them.*[sup][1][/sup]
A news report stated that the former Philippine ambassador to the Vatican was told by Cardinal Ratzinger that the Message of Akita was consistent with the Third Secret and that they were “essentially the same.”[sup][2][/sup] (But there’s nothing about this in the version of the Third Secret released by the Vatican).
On U.S. national radio, Fr. Malachi Martin stated the following in response to question by a caller:[sup][3][/sup]
Caller: “I had a Jesuit priest tell me more of the Third Secret of Fatima years ago, in Perth. He said, among other things, the last pope would be under control of Satan. Any comment on that?”
Fr. Martin: “Yes, it sounds as if they were reading, or being told, the text of the Third Secret. But it’s sufficiently vague to make one hesitate… it sounds like it.”
Sr. Lucia is reported to have stated herself that the Third Secret involved the Apocalypse, particularly chapters 8 to 13.[sup][4][/sup] On May 13, 2000, during his homily at Fatima, and on the day it was announced the Third Secret would be released, Pope JPII made explicit reference to one of those chapters of the Apocalypse, saying the following: “The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’.”[sup][5][/sup] (Rev.12:4) Keeping in mind the second paragraph of the Akita prophecy above, understand that this chapter and verse has been interpreted in Catholic commentaries to be referring to the apostasy and defection of Catholic clergy in favor of the devil.[sup][6][/sup] Now, while still keeping that in mind, be aware that Cardinal Ciappi, personal theologian to multiple popes, is quoted in a Catholic journal as writing the following regarding the Third Secret:
“In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”[sup][7][/sup]
Sr. Lucia is quoted as saying the following:
“That which afflicts the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Heart of Jesus is the fall of religious and priestly souls. The devil knows that religious and priests who fall away from their beautiful vocation drag numerous souls to hell.”[sup][8][/sup]
Fr. Malachi Martin stated the following on national radio:
“Well, the prophecy of Fatima, without going into my background in this matter, the prophecy of Fatima is not a pleasant document to read. And it is not pleasant news. It implies, it doesn’t make any sense unless we accept that there will be, or that there is in progress, a wholesale apostasy amongst clerics, and laity in the Catholic Church, that the institutional organization of the Roman Catholic Church, that is the organization of parishes, dioceses, archbishops, bishops and cardinals, the Roman bureaucracies, and the chanceries throughout the world, unless that is totally disrupted, and rendered null and void, the third secret makes no sense.”[sup][9][/sup]
References:
[1] ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm
[2] Catholic World News, October 11, 2001. Full Text of the Third Secret Revealed catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?id=20583
[3] Fr. Malachi Martin on Coast to Coast AM, July 13, 1998.
[4] Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite. The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume III. p. 533.
[5] Beatification of Blessed Jacinta and Francisco, May 13, 2000, Fatima, Portugal. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_20000513_beatification-fatima_en.html
[6] Father Herman Bernard Kramer, The Book of Destiny, pp. 279-284. Also see the Haydock commentary from 1859 for another example.
[7] Father Gerard Mura, The Third Secret of Fatima: Has It Been Completely Revealed?, from the journal Catholic, (Scotland/Great Britain journal) March 2002.
[8] Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima - Volume III, pp. 503 to 508
[9] Fr. Malachi Martin, Coast to Coast AM, May 04, 1998.
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
When I hear/read Father Gruner’s claims vs those of Sister Lucy and the Pope I am reminded of the verse in Acts 19:13
Lucy I know, Pope John Paul II I know, Pope Benedict XVI I know, but who is Father Gruner and what makes him the expert on this.13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to pronounce the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15 But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, mastered all of them, and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 And this became known to all residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks; and fear fell upon them all; and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled
I
Insight
Guest
Wikipedia has a good page on Haffert. I listened to an audio recording at the bottom of the page under media, he was a very dynamic speaker and very interesting to listen to. In the recording he spoke about his interviews with those who witnessed the actual Fatima miracle.John Haffert, co founder of the “Blue Army” writes in his book:“There are some who deny this because the Pope did not explicitly mention Russia in the act of consecration. They ignore that all the bishops of the world had been sent the entire document of the consecration of Russsia made by Pope Pius XII in 1954, which John Paul II was now renewing in union with all the worlds bishops.Sister Lucia said positively that this was accepted by God.” Gods Final Effort pg.21 #13 So much for the Blue army position.
Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consencration corresponed to what Our Lady wished ( " Sim, esta feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, o dia 25 de marco de 1984".) " Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984." So much for Sister Lucia’s position.( (The Message of Fatima Congregation For The Doctrine of The Faith)
Introduction by Tarcisio Bertone, SDB Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli Secretary of the Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith. The Churchs position.
Never rely on a article or possibly two in conflict with the Church’s official stance.
Believe whatever you wish, communion with the church or not, but this is all the time i will spend on this issue.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Haffert
God Bless
E
Erin_Anne
Guest
I must correct myself here – I meant to refer to the second secret - not the 3rd. The consecration of Russia debate specifically.The debate over the 3rd Secret has been a topic of discussion on Relevant Radio the last couple days. I’m not going to comment on it because I’m still researching, but if you’re interested in hearing the archives: www.relevantradio.com
Dr. Miravalle addresed the subject on the Drew Mariani show yesterday.
Erin-Anne :shamrock2:
Sorry sorry sorry!
L
LoyalViews
Guest
Fr. Gruner would be on the same line as some of those fallen away priests? (On the same line, not necessarily one of them)Sr. Lucia is quoted as saying the following:
"That which afflicts the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Heart of Jesus is the fall of religious and priestly souls. The devil knows that religious and priests who fall away from their beautiful vocation drag numerous souls to hell."[sup][8][/sup]
V
VitaminC
Guest
No.Fr. Gruner would be on the same line as some of those fallen away priests? (On the same line, not necessarily one of them)
D
desertPavel
Guest
re: Fr. Gruner
Without getting into the debate concerning Fr. Gruner & the legitimacy of his claims and counter-claims, I have been on his mailing list for almost a decade.I really don’t know both sides of the controversy. I was officially enrolled in the brown scapular according to the rite of the Carmelite order by a parish priest but never had my obligation of reading The Little Office commuted to praying the Rosary daily. Fr. Gruner sent me a brown scapular with a letter stating that he commuted my obligation from reading The Little Office to praying the Rosary daily. Now, I am wondering if this commutation is valid.??? Should I just go to my parish priest? How is the commutation or permission given because I want the benefits of the Sabbatine privilege.
I am sorry if I strayed from the primary topic of this thread.
Paul
Without getting into the debate concerning Fr. Gruner & the legitimacy of his claims and counter-claims, I have been on his mailing list for almost a decade.I really don’t know both sides of the controversy. I was officially enrolled in the brown scapular according to the rite of the Carmelite order by a parish priest but never had my obligation of reading The Little Office commuted to praying the Rosary daily. Fr. Gruner sent me a brown scapular with a letter stating that he commuted my obligation from reading The Little Office to praying the Rosary daily. Now, I am wondering if this commutation is valid.??? Should I just go to my parish priest? How is the commutation or permission given because I want the benefits of the Sabbatine privilege.
I am sorry if I strayed from the primary topic of this thread.
Paul
S
SaintGobban
Guest
The Pope and certain Cardinals claim that the Consecration has been “accepted.” Not done as requested, but according them, according to Sister Lucy, “accepted.”
Father Gruner claims that the Consecration was never done. Since it was never done as stipulated by Mary, it has not been “accepted.” And he further claims as proof that Russia is every bit as evil a place as it has ever been, maybe more so. Russia has not been converted even a little bit in any sort of way.
Our Lady asked that the Pope and all of the Bishops of the World unite together and publicly dedicate Russia, not the world, Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Was this ever done?
No.
No this was never done.
Simple as that.
It was not done. What else is there to say.
The Church can claim whatever they want about “acceptance,” but they can not claim that they did what Our Lady asked because it is an obvious fact that they did not.
Father Gruner continues to correctly point this fact out.
It is an inconvenient fact, politically.
The Church does not want to single out Russia, politically, so it simply has not done what Mary requested.
Rather than acknowledge this truth, the Chruch has tried to silence, discredit, and make Father Gruner go away.
He has not. That’s about the entire issue.
Whether Father Gruner is still a priest, or a nut, or a heretic, or whatever he might be, is completely immaterial.
He is still correctly pointing out the facts about this situation. About this issue, Father Gruner is 100% correct and telling the absolute truth. About this issue, the Chruch is 100% wrong. **Our Lady’s request was **not honored. And Sister Lucy, or the Pope and all of the College of Cardinals, plus Mother Angelica and everyone at EWTN can not alter the **facts **of the situation. Russia and all of the Bishops of the world **DID NOT EVER **consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as she requested. End of story.
Father Gruner claims that the Consecration was never done. Since it was never done as stipulated by Mary, it has not been “accepted.” And he further claims as proof that Russia is every bit as evil a place as it has ever been, maybe more so. Russia has not been converted even a little bit in any sort of way.
Our Lady asked that the Pope and all of the Bishops of the World unite together and publicly dedicate Russia, not the world, Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Was this ever done?
No.
No this was never done.
Simple as that.
It was not done. What else is there to say.
The Church can claim whatever they want about “acceptance,” but they can not claim that they did what Our Lady asked because it is an obvious fact that they did not.
Father Gruner continues to correctly point this fact out.
It is an inconvenient fact, politically.
The Church does not want to single out Russia, politically, so it simply has not done what Mary requested.
Rather than acknowledge this truth, the Chruch has tried to silence, discredit, and make Father Gruner go away.
He has not. That’s about the entire issue.
Whether Father Gruner is still a priest, or a nut, or a heretic, or whatever he might be, is completely immaterial.
He is still correctly pointing out the facts about this situation. About this issue, Father Gruner is 100% correct and telling the absolute truth. About this issue, the Chruch is 100% wrong. **Our Lady’s request was **not honored. And Sister Lucy, or the Pope and all of the College of Cardinals, plus Mother Angelica and everyone at EWTN can not alter the **facts **of the situation. Russia and all of the Bishops of the world **DID NOT EVER **consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as she requested. End of story.
D
dullend
Guest
what is this Fatima center is. and why they are mailing you…and what kind of stuff they send…???
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Probly the easiest way to educate yourself on this issue of the 3rd secret? Is to look to You-Tube and the interviews with Coast to Coast radio with Art Bell [DJ] and Father Gruner “The Third Secret”. Theres also a very good 9 section interview with Coast to Coast Radio with Art Bell and Father Malichi Martin and the 3rd secret is again discussed.
Its no longer even a debate if the entire message was released or not. It hasn’t been. No-where in the 2000 release of the message of Fatima were the Blessed Mothers actual words released. Their were two envelopes give to the Pope by Sister Lucia. One contained 4-pages and 64 lines, the other which is the actual words of our Blessed Mother consisted of one page and 24 lines. This is the letter in question thats not been released.
The actual position of Father Gruner is also explained in detail by him. Why not just listen instead of getting into a he said, she said debate. And hear the Truth right from the mouth of the accused. I doubt very much he’s not telling the truth.
This question of if the Popes not telling the Truth? His position has been to continue to keep the faithfull focused on “THEIR” issues. Not to have them concerned with the consecratiin of Russia. And his position is FULLY understand my all. Its not a question of him telling the truth. Why even go their?
The point of the debate is this. The Fatima messge from our Blessed Mother as told by Sr Lucy was for the “PEOPLE” not for the Pope. She gave the message to the Pope because she was in ILL heath. Affraid she would pass on, the Bishop then asked her to write down the message. This was in 1957. She was specifically told not to release the message till after 1960. This is the point where the Vatican became involved. Once the message was given to the Pope. Sr Lucy was placed under house arrest. An remained under tight security till she passed on in 2005. No-One was able to talk to her. not even her immediate family without many ears overhearing all conversations. She was also quoted as saying. The message of Akita Japan from our Blessed Mother was basically the same message.
But theres a lot more to this than meets the eye. Pope Benedict is going to Fatima May 7th for a week. So I’m sure the importance of this message is utmost on his mind. Bottom line is it needs to be given to the Faithfull as was intended.
Anyway good luck in your search for the Truth. If you really get into this. You’ll be VERY surprized at some of the comments made by Card. Ratzinger before he became Pope. His statements also indicate that a section of the 3rd secret were not released. I have all the Quotes her. And I could quote him. But why believe or not believe me? The TRUTH is out here. Just search for it.
Its no longer even a debate if the entire message was released or not. It hasn’t been. No-where in the 2000 release of the message of Fatima were the Blessed Mothers actual words released. Their were two envelopes give to the Pope by Sister Lucia. One contained 4-pages and 64 lines, the other which is the actual words of our Blessed Mother consisted of one page and 24 lines. This is the letter in question thats not been released.
The actual position of Father Gruner is also explained in detail by him. Why not just listen instead of getting into a he said, she said debate. And hear the Truth right from the mouth of the accused. I doubt very much he’s not telling the truth.
This question of if the Popes not telling the Truth? His position has been to continue to keep the faithfull focused on “THEIR” issues. Not to have them concerned with the consecratiin of Russia. And his position is FULLY understand my all. Its not a question of him telling the truth. Why even go their?
The point of the debate is this. The Fatima messge from our Blessed Mother as told by Sr Lucy was for the “PEOPLE” not for the Pope. She gave the message to the Pope because she was in ILL heath. Affraid she would pass on, the Bishop then asked her to write down the message. This was in 1957. She was specifically told not to release the message till after 1960. This is the point where the Vatican became involved. Once the message was given to the Pope. Sr Lucy was placed under house arrest. An remained under tight security till she passed on in 2005. No-One was able to talk to her. not even her immediate family without many ears overhearing all conversations. She was also quoted as saying. The message of Akita Japan from our Blessed Mother was basically the same message.
But theres a lot more to this than meets the eye. Pope Benedict is going to Fatima May 7th for a week. So I’m sure the importance of this message is utmost on his mind. Bottom line is it needs to be given to the Faithfull as was intended.
Anyway good luck in your search for the Truth. If you really get into this. You’ll be VERY surprized at some of the comments made by Card. Ratzinger before he became Pope. His statements also indicate that a section of the 3rd secret were not released. I have all the Quotes her. And I could quote him. But why believe or not believe me? The TRUTH is out here. Just search for it.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Also why not look for youself at fatima.org.? You read the postings on the sight and make up you own mind. Why believe someone who is posting here? Educate yourself from those who have dedicated their life on getting the word out and getting this message released. And if you do-not want to recieve anything from fatima? SIMPLY E-MAIL Father Gruner. And it will stop. Its really that simple. His e-mail if given on the Coast to Coast interviews.
Listen …things can only be one of THREE WAYS. Its either willed by GOD himself. its a NATURAL occurance by GOD, or its diabolical.
Listen to whats being said. Then pray the Rosary to have the Blessed Mother lead your Heart to the Truth. Im POSITIVE you will come to same conclusions so many of us have reached. This is not diabolical, therefore it must be from…GOD!
You simply cannot take the word of those directly under the influence of the Vatican. Its their sworn duty to uphold what the Vatican is saying. How could you possibly see things objectively this way? And how do you know who your talking to here? You may be talking to someone under the influenece of Satan.
The next position that fatima takes is in direct opposition to the Vatican. They firmly believe the Mass has to go back to the way it was prior to the changes in the 60’s. This is believed by so many and has been since that period. I can remember the changes in the 60’s. All the elders in the church were in opposition to this. Many of the faithfull have remained involved in the catholic church as I have. Not because they believe in what was done in the 60’s but because they are faithfull. And they have Blind Faith. The greatest sin of our time? Sloth, in the final judgement ignorance will not be an excuse, it will not be Bliss. Our Lady also says…“In the end, my Immaculate Heart will Triumph” So what she is saying, will be. The point is will you listen, and to listen, you must recieve the entire message.
You have a mind of your own. Use it, is all I’m saying. Do not take the word of anyone here. including ME. Research this yourself. Then make up your mind. BTW their are 300Thousand Catholics in all of Russia. Does that sound consecrated to you? Come, come not let us not talk falsely here. Get the facts.
Listen …things can only be one of THREE WAYS. Its either willed by GOD himself. its a NATURAL occurance by GOD, or its diabolical.
Listen to whats being said. Then pray the Rosary to have the Blessed Mother lead your Heart to the Truth. Im POSITIVE you will come to same conclusions so many of us have reached. This is not diabolical, therefore it must be from…GOD!
You simply cannot take the word of those directly under the influence of the Vatican. Its their sworn duty to uphold what the Vatican is saying. How could you possibly see things objectively this way? And how do you know who your talking to here? You may be talking to someone under the influenece of Satan.
The next position that fatima takes is in direct opposition to the Vatican. They firmly believe the Mass has to go back to the way it was prior to the changes in the 60’s. This is believed by so many and has been since that period. I can remember the changes in the 60’s. All the elders in the church were in opposition to this. Many of the faithfull have remained involved in the catholic church as I have. Not because they believe in what was done in the 60’s but because they are faithfull. And they have Blind Faith. The greatest sin of our time? Sloth, in the final judgement ignorance will not be an excuse, it will not be Bliss. Our Lady also says…“In the end, my Immaculate Heart will Triumph” So what she is saying, will be. The point is will you listen, and to listen, you must recieve the entire message.
You have a mind of your own. Use it, is all I’m saying. Do not take the word of anyone here. including ME. Research this yourself. Then make up your mind. BTW their are 300Thousand Catholics in all of Russia. Does that sound consecrated to you? Come, come not let us not talk falsely here. Get the facts.
T
thomas_jd
Guest
Read posts 11, 17 ,19 .Also why not look for youself at fatima.org.? You read the postings on the sight and make up you own mind. Why believe someone who is posting here? Educate yourself from those who have dedicated their life on getting the word out and getting this message released. And if you do-not want to recieve anything from fatima? SIMPLY E-MAIL Father Gruner. And it will stop. Its really that simple. His e-mail if given on the Coast to Coast interviews.
Listen …things can only be one of THREE WAYS. Its either willed by GOD himself. its a NATURAL occurance by GOD, or its diabolical.
Listen to whats being said. Then pray the Rosary to have the Blessed Mother lead your Heart to the Truth. Im POSITIVE you will come to same conclusions so many of us have reached. This is not diabolical, therefore it must be from…GOD!
You simply cannot take the word of those directly under the influence of the Vatican. Its their sworn duty to uphold what the Vatican is saying. How could you possibly see things objectively this way? And how do you know who your talking to here? You may be talking to someone under the influenece of Satan.
The next position that fatima takes is in direct opposition to the Vatican. They firmly believe the Mass has to go back to the way it was prior to the changes in the 60’s. This is believed by so many and has been since that period. I can remember the changes in the 60’s. All the elders in the church were in opposition to this. Many of the faithfull have remained involved in the catholic church as I have. Not because they believe in what was done in the 60’s but because they are faithfull. And they have Blind Faith. The greatest sin of our time? Sloth, in the final judgement ignorance will not be an excuse, it will not be Bliss. Our Lady also says…“In the end, my Immaculate Heart will Triumph” So what she is saying, will be. The point is will you listen, and to listen, you must recieve the entire message.
You have a mind of your own. Use it, is all I’m saying. Do not take the word of anyone here. including ME. Research this yourself. Then make up your mind. BTW their are 300Thousand Catholics in all of Russia. Does that sound consecrated to you? Come, come not let us not talk falsely here. Get the facts.
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