The Five "Deaths" of the Church

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RobinSebas

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I was listening to a priest the other day and he was saying that so many people are worried today looking at the problems the church is in. He said the church has “died” five times in these 2000 years and added that there were periods of 4 centuries each that the church has gone through different “deaths.”

The first 4 centuries: External persecution.
The second 4 centuries: Schisms and heresy.
The third 4 centuries: Internal failings, the worldliness of the church, two sometimes even three popes, et cetera.
The fourth 4 centuries: A dormant church.

My question is what are the problems that we are facing today in the fifth period?
 
lack of reverence in our churches and especially for Eucharist
the architecture is bad
contraception
lukewarmness
etc
 
Contrary to popular belief, there has never been a Golden Age of the Church. There was always something causing problems somewhere. Read a history of the popes, especially from about the 12th century on and see the problems they had to deal with.
 
The Church was anything but dormant in the post-Trent years- missionary activity to the East, conversion of Latin America, the Council of Trent itself, and possibly the greatest period of Church architecture.
 
I think by dormit church he ment by lay participation.

Wasn’t until Vatican II did the Lay actually start having a larger role in their parishes. At least that is my understanding.

All of these “deaths” and challenges are all part of its growing pains until the second comming.

I would have to agree now there is a great sense of disobedience in the church caused mainly by indifference and lukewarmness of our societies. Its more of a sense of Lazyness because people arn’t going out and loving their neighbors anymore they just sit at home and play games, watch tv, or spend time on the computer.

Society has changed from town communities to chat room communities.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
lack of reverence in our churches and especially for Eucharist
the architecture is bad
contraception
lukewarmness
etc
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I would agree with all the posts to date, while giving special mention to the above two quoted and highlighted in blue.

The Eucharist is the very heart of our faith… the “source and summit” of the life of the Church.

Without priests, we cannot have the Eucharist. So there is an attack on the priesthood also. Consequently we’re witnessing a decline in the number of priests (although the global amount assessed during the past two years is said to have remained constant). This lack is only due in part to men not answering the “call” to the priesthood.

Contraception also plays a part in this, and contraception’s most hideous brother - abortion plays an even greater role.

Mother Theresa of Calcutta called abortion “the greatest destroyer of peace in the world.”

Here are a few figures to help us reflect:

The WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION reports -
  • There are an estimated 46 million abortions performed worldwide each year.
  • For every 100 births there are 31 abortions worldwide.
  • In the year 2000 the abortion causing drug mifepristone (RU-486) was approved for use in the US.
Closer to home, the GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE reported (take a peek for yourself if you prefer, here guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html )
that:
  • In the year 2005 there were 1.2 million abortions in the USA.
  • In the USA, 22 percent of all pregnancies end in abortion.
There are currently approximately 406 thousand (406,000) priests in the world for the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics.

Our world has aborted many who were meant to be priests. What are we depriving ourselves of…? … How many Fr. John Corapi’s…? … How many Bishop Fulton J. Sheens’…How many Curés’ of Ars…?
 
RobinSebas said:
I was listening to a priest the other day and he was saying that so many people are worried today looking at the problems the church is in. He said the church has “died” five times in these 2000 years and added that there were periods of 4 centuries each that the church has gone through different “deaths.”

The first 4 centuries: External persecution.
The second 4 centuries: Schisms and heresy.
The third 4 centuries: Internal failings, the worldliness of the church, two sometimes even three popes, et cetera.
The fourth 4 centuries: A dormant church.

My question is what are the problems that we are facing today in the fifth period?
Click to expand...
In looking at this proposed division of Church history, The math here is not working out.

There were numerous heresies before the end of the forth century. There were no major schisms until the ninth century

Most of the corrupt popes came after the 12th century during the so-called dormant age.

The great Western Schism was in the 15th century.

And what about the last 500 years or so?

I think some revision to this assertion is in order.

Perhaps a glance at this site would be better. oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Curricula:_Church_History

As for the problems facing the Church today. Simple, we are not in the period of the Great Apostasy.
 
rpp said:
…
As for the problems facing the Church today. Simple, we are not in the period of the Great Apostasy.
Click to expand...
2 Thessalonians 2:3, 15-17
"Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one doomed to perdition,…

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting encouragement and good hope through his grace,
encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good deed and word."
Code: 
        *******************************************
To The Priests, Our Lady’s Beloved Sons,
(Marian Movement of Priests), # 384; pgs 565,566, [Given June 11, 1988 - Feast of The Immaculate Heart of Mary]

b " The hour of the great apostasy has come. What has been foretold in Holy Scripture, in the Second Letter of St. Paul to the Thessalonians, is now on the point of coming to pass.
c Satan, my Adversary,with snares and by means of his subtle seduction, has succeeded in spreading errors everywhere, under the form of new and more updated interpretations of the truth, and he has led many to choose with full knowledge - and to live in - sin, in the deceiving conviction that this is no longer an evil, and even that it is a value and a good.
d The times of the general confusion and of the greatest agitation of the spirits has come. Confusion has entered into the souls and the lives of many of my children.
e This great apostasy is spreading more and more, even through the interior of the Catholic Church. Errors are being taught and spread about, while the fundamental truths of the faith, which the authentic Magisterium of the Church has always taught and energetically defended against any heretical deviation whatsoever, are being denied with impunity. (…)
g Victims of the great apostasy are those children of mine who, often unknowingly, allow themselves to be carried along by this wave of errors and of evil.
h Victims of the great apostasy are many bishops,priests,religious and faithful. (…)
 
rpp said:
As for the problems facing the Church today. Simple, we are **not **in the period of the Great Apostasy.
Click to expand...
NeedImprovement said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3, 15-17
"Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one doomed to perdition,…

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting encouragement and good hope through his grace,
encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good deed and word."
Code: 
        *******************************************
To The Priests, Our Lady’s Beloved Sons,
(Marian Movement of Priests), # 384; pgs 565,566, [Given June 11, 1988 - Feast of The Immaculate Heart of Mary]

b " The hour of the great apostasy has come. What has been foretold in Holy Scripture, in the Second Letter of St. Paul to the Thessalonians, is now on the point of coming to pass.
c Satan, my Adversary,with snares and by means of his subtle seduction, has succeeded in spreading errors everywhere, under the form of new and more updated interpretations of the truth, and he has led many to choose with full knowledge - and to live in - sin, in the deceiving conviction that this is no longer an evil, and even that it is a value and a good.
d The times of the general confusion and of the greatest agitation of the spirits has come. Confusion has entered into the souls and the lives of many of my children.
e This great apostasy is spreading more and more, even through the interior of the Catholic Church. Errors are being taught and spread about, while the fundamental truths of the faith, which the authentic Magisterium of the Church has always taught and energetically defended against any heretical deviation whatsoever, are being denied with impunity. (…)
g Victims of the great apostasy are those children of mine who, often unknowingly, allow themselves to be carried along by this wave of errors and of evil.
h Victims of the great apostasy are many bishops,priests,religious and faithful. (…)
Click to expand...
Doh! :doh2: Typo!

I meant to say:
As for the problems facing the Church today. Simple, we **are **in the period of the Great Apostasy.
Click to expand...
I have no idea how I ended up typing the word “not” in my post. Sorry. 😊
 
RobinSebas said:
I was listening to a priest the other day and he was saying that so many people are worried today looking at the problems the church is in. He said the church has “died” five times in these 2000 years and added that there were periods of 4 centuries each that the church has gone through different “deaths.”

The first 4 centuries: External persecution.
The second 4 centuries: Schisms and heresy.
The third 4 centuries: Internal failings, the worldliness of the church, two sometimes even three popes, et cetera.
The fourth 4 centuries: A dormant church.

My question is what are the problems that we are facing today in the fifth period?
Click to expand...
I can’t follow your Math here:

First four centuries - years 33 - about 450 AD
Second four centuries - roughly 500 - 900 AD (birth of many of the “great” heresies, including some still with us such as gnosticm and arianism)
Third - 900 - 1300 AD (“great” schism was in this period, not the second)
Fourth 1300 - 1700 AD

The biggest “death” to the Church in the fourth period was the Protestant revolt and all the ensuing division in the Body of Christ. This led to the great reformation (or counter-reformation as the Protestants called it). Hardly a period of dormancy.

By your math, we are nearing the end of the fifth period (approximately 1700 to 2100 AD). The greatest problems in this period (IMHO) have been lukewarmedness and a loss of a moral center.
 
rpp said:
Doh! :doh2: Typo!

I meant to say:

I have no idea how I ended up typing the word “not” in my post. Sorry. 😊
Click to expand...
I understood perfectly 👍

I have to proofread my own posts 3 or 4 times for typos, the “w” is only 2 spaces away from the “t”. Plus if you have a sticky keyboard…🤷

My post was in agreement with yours (typo understood) and was only meant to inform those who might want a little more info on the Great Apostasy (especially at this time).

Its always better if we discover our own typos ourselves I find (you know…let him who is without typo cast the first post). 😃
 
RobinSebas said:
I was listening to a priest the other day and he was saying that so many people are worried today looking at the problems the church is in. He said the church has “died” five times in these 2000 years and added that there were periods of 4 centuries each that the church has gone through different “deaths.”

The first 4 centuries: External persecution.
The second 4 centuries: Schisms and heresy.
The third 4 centuries: Internal failings, the worldliness of the church, two sometimes even three popes, et cetera.
The fourth 4 centuries: A dormant church.

My question is what are the problems that we are facing today in the fifth period?
Click to expand...
Actually it is about every 500 years when the Church faces a major crises… Islam, Schism, Reformation, Relativism/Modernism

However… those periods are also marked with the elevation of a super strong Pope…

want to guess who the four popes are??
 
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