The Flavian Hypothesis

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sanctepiedecime

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Hello, I am new to this site but I have been studying religion for quite some time now.

This is the first time I have come across this theory and I must say, some of the claims it makes are interesting to say the least.

I would just like to see what everyone thinks of this and perhaps see if anyone could refute this theory.

Well here it is:

fargonasphere.com/piso/

Notably, the theory suggests that the New Testament was created by Romans. The theory says stuff like the mark of the beast, 666, in Roman numerals VIVIVI, was merely an attempt to demonize Ceasar (veni vidi vici) and so forth.

I’d love some opinions on this. God bless!!
 
I’ve stopped laughing now after I’ve read that tripe.Pure and utter gobble de gook half truths semi truths and nonsense .Dude is just trying to sell his cruddy book.
 
sanctepiedecime said:
I would just like to see what everyone thinks of this and perhaps see if anyone could refute this theory.
Click to expand...
It’s not really a theory - it’s a collection of absurd and silly anecdotes which the author strings together. The author could not hope to “prove” his point with just one or two of these anecdotes, but he hopes that, if he can invent enough of them, he will “prove” his argument by the sheer weight of his “evidence.”

You cannot “refute” it without refuting each of the silly anecdotes, therefore reducing the “weight” of the “evidence.” It is often said that it can require an entire book to refute just one false statement, so refuting this nonsense would be both daunting and pointless (it really refutes itself quite nicely to anyone with any sense at all).

I remember hearing a protestant preaching against gambling, and against the concept of “luck” in particular (which is fine - Catholics also reject the concept of “luck”). But he tried to make the point that “luck” was really the work of the devil, because the word “luck” and the name “lucifer” begin with the same three letters (‘luc’). I was reminded of the intellectual depth of this argument as I skimmed over this silly essay.
 
It’s just plain bad History and worse Biblical exegesis.I loved the part that said"Joseph "was a really popular name with the Pisos.Really that’s really strange because Joseph is a Jewish name and Roman first names were few in number and tied to familial tradition.
 
Thank you all for the responses.

I mean if you ask me, the theories proposed seem pretty far out there. Not quite as ludicrous as say, www.truthism.com, but still pretty far out there.

Just playing devil’s advocate here, but what are we to think of there being 66 occurrences of the word fool. Is it mere coincidence or are there actually clues left in the Bible by its authors (whether those authors be mere men or God himself) that were meant to be found by those who discovered them?

I know many Muslims are keen to point to alledged numerical miracles in the Qur’an, are Christians supposed to do the same and look for miracles within the Bible?

Many thanks and God bless!
 
Fascinating levels of crazy in that link!

There is so much wrong with EVERY thing that is proposed that it is simply silly to even begin to debunk it.
 
sanctepiedecime said:
Hello, I am new to this site but I have been studying religion for quite some time now.

This is the first time I have come across this theory and I must say, some of the claims it makes are interesting to say the least.

I would just like to see what everyone thinks of this and perhaps see if anyone could refute this theory.

Well here it is:

fargonasphere.com/piso/

Notably, the theory suggests that the New Testament was created by Romans. The theory says stuff like the mark of the beast, 666, in Roman numerals VIVIVI, was merely an attempt to demonize Ceasar (veni vidi vici) and so forth.

I’d love some opinions on this. God bless!!
Click to expand...
666 in Roman numerals would not be VIVIVI (not that it matters). It would be DCLXVI
 
sanctepiedecime said:
… www.truthism.com,…
Click to expand...
Hey, that’s pretty crazy stuff too. Annunaki? You can see them if you drop enough acid??

HEY!! One time I was tripping really hard, and I was captured by invisible wires of electricity and began to meld with the street. Now I know that it was the Reptilians coming to get me! Boy, I’m glad I got out of that fix!!

Oy… it’s almost as nuts as Gene Ray at www.timecube.com .
 
Nah, the New Testament was put together by reptilian aliens.
They call it in their language ‘To Serve Man’.
It’s a cookbook.
😃
 
DavidFilmer said:
It’s not really a theory - it’s a collection of absurd and silly anecdotes which the author strings together. The author could not hope to “prove” his point with just one or two of these anecdotes, but he hopes that, if he can invent enough of them, he will “prove” his argument by the sheer weight of his “evidence.”

You cannot “refute” it without refuting each of the silly anecdotes, therefore reducing the “weight” of the “evidence.” It is often said that it can require an entire book to refute just one false statement, so refuting this nonsense would be both daunting and pointless (it really refutes itself quite nicely to anyone with any sense at all).

I remember hearing a protestant preaching against gambling, and against the concept of “luck” in particular (which is fine - Catholics also reject the concept of “luck”). But he tried to make the point that “luck” was really the work of the devil, because the word “luck” and the name “lucifer” begin with the same three letters (‘luc’). I was reminded of the intellectual depth of this argument as I skimmed over this silly essay.
Click to expand...
Really, can you post one… here is some of what I find interesting (not necessarily from the book).

Old Testament, Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus….
Old Testament, Joseph was born of a miracle birth…
New Testament, Jesus was born of a miracle birth…
Old Testament, Joseph had 12 brothers…
New Testament, Jesus had 12 disciples…
Old Testament, Joseph…. was sold for twenty pieces of silver.
New Testament, Jesus…. was sold for thirty pieces of silver.
Old Testament, Joseph…. brother Judah suggest the sale of Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus…. disciple Judas suggest the sale of Jesus….
Old Testament, Joseph began his work at thirty….
New Testament, Jesus began his work at thirty….

It seems to me that I keep hearing about the Flavius hypothesis counter claims, that I keep hearing about the existence of proof to the contrary of the hypothesis, yet everyone making these claims is just to darn busy to post them… I would like to study this closely kept secret, any suggestions?
 
An important correction. Joseph was one of twelve brothers, so he had 11 brothers. Jesus had twelve disciples to reflect the reinstitution of the 12 tribes of Israel. So he was also prefigured by Jacob.

And you’ll find many similarities to OT figures to Jesus. They were types that pointed to Christ. The whole OT prefigures Jesus.
 
Old Testament, Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus….
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. Phonetic similarities mean nothing.
Old Testament, Joseph was born of a miracle birth…
New Testament, Jesus was born of a miracle birth…
Click to expand...
Joseph’s birth was not miraculous in the same way Christ’s was. The miraculous part of Josephs birth is that it happened at all. The miraculous part of Jesus’ birth is that it by all means should not have happened.
Old Testament, Joseph had 12 brothers…
New Testament, Jesus had 12 disciples…
Click to expand...
Actually Joseph at only 10 brothers at the time of his birth, but 11 brothers in total
Old Testament, Joseph…. was sold for twenty pieces of silver.
New Testament, Jesus…. was sold for thirty pieces of silver.
Click to expand...
Both of these were the prices used to buy slaves
Old Testament, Joseph…. brother Judah suggest the sale of Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus…. disciple Judas suggest the sale of Jesus….
Click to expand...
Judah suggested the sale of Joseph in order to be merciful. Judas did not suggest the sale of Jesus. He was given the money in order to find and identify Jesus.
Old Testament, Joseph began his work at thirty….
New Testament, Jesus began his work at thirty….
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. You make the mistake of focusing on the age of the time when service began rather than the nature of the service, which I would argue is more important.
It seems to me that I keep hearing about the Flavius hypothesis counter claims, that I keep hearing about the existence of proof to the contrary of the hypothesis, yet everyone making these claims is just to darn busy to post them… I would like to study this closely kept secret, any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Simply put, no one wants to bother. You seem new here but we have gone through all these things over and over again and don’t care to post anything. But for your sake.

" The ‘Judean War’, written by Flavius Josephus, was originally part of the Christian Bible, and was removed around 1100 CE. "
Simply untrue. Look at the Canon proposed at the council of Carthage (I will not post it for you, do some research, it really is easy, just type in “council, carthage, canon”). You will see no such book is there. In fact it’s the same list we have today.
 
zz912 said:
An important correction. Joseph was one of twelve brothers, so he had 11 brothers. Jesus had twelve disciples to reflect the reinstitution of the 12 tribes of Israel. So he was also prefigured by Jacob.

And you’ll find many similarities to OT figures to Jesus. They were types that pointed to Christ. The whole OT prefigures Jesus.
Click to expand...
An important correction. Joseph was one of twelve brothers, so he had 11 brothers.
Answer: Then as one of twelve, my bad… : )

Jesus had twelve disciples to reflect the reinstitution of the 12 tribes of Israel. So he was also prefigured by Jacob.

Answer: Doctrinal interpretation? or does the bible specifically say this…

And you’ll find many similarities to OT figures to Jesus. They were types that pointed to Christ. The whole OT prefigures Jesus.

Answer: More so than is generally admitted to I think, especially when (if) we deploy the Flavian hypothesis. He seems to have a lot in common with Pagan gods as well. :confused:
 
TheQuestioner said:
Irrelevant. Phonetic similarities mean nothing.

Joseph’s birth was not miraculous in the same way Christ’s was. The miraculous part of Josephs birth is that it happened at all. The miraculous part of Jesus’ birth is that it by all means should not have happened.

Actually Joseph at only 10 brothers at the time of his birth, but 11 brothers in total

Both of these were the prices used to buy slaves

Re: The Flavian Hypothesis

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus….

Irrelevant. Phonetic similarities mean nothing.

Answer: Doctrine seems to be dependant on phonetic similarities, seems to me that is the only way biblical textual contradiction is overcome?

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph was born of a miracle birth…
New Testament, Jesus was born of a miracle birth…

Joseph’s birth was not miraculous in the same way Christ’s was. The miraculous part of Josephs birth is that it happened at all. The miraculous part of Jesus’ birth is that it by all means should not have happened.

Answer: I this is what the bible claims yes…

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph had 12 brothers…
New Testament, Jesus had 12 disciples…

Actually Joseph at only 10 brothers at the time of his birth, but 11 brothers in total

Answer: Yes, a symbolic representation that appears in both bibles.

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph…. was sold for twenty pieces of silver.
New Testament, Jesus…. was sold for thirty pieces of silver.

Both of these were the prices used to buy slaves

Answer: Well this makes it more than just a phonetic similarity doesn’t it?

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph…. brother Judah suggest the sale of Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus…. disciple Judas suggest the sale of Jesus….

Judah suggested the sale of Joseph in order to be merciful. Judas did not suggest the sale of Jesus. He was given the money in order to find and identify Jesus.

Answer: Only if we ignore the greater part of discarded scrolls…

Quote:
Old Testament, Joseph began his work at thirty….
New Testament, Jesus began his work at thirty….

Irrelevant. You make the mistake of focusing on the age of the time when service began rather than the nature of the service, which I would argue is more important.

Answer: No not really since I am not ingaged in doctrineail studies…

Quote:
It seems to me that I keep hearing about the Flavius hypothesis counter claims, that I keep hearing about the existence of proof to the contrary of the hypothesis, yet everyone making these claims is just to darn busy to post them… I would like to study this closely kept secret, any suggestions?

Simply put, no one wants to bother. You seem new here but we have gone through all these things over and over again and don’t care to post anything. But for your sake.

" The ‘Judean War’, written by Flavius Josephus, was originally part of the Christian Bible, and was removed around 1100 CE. "
Simply untrue. Look at the Canon proposed at the council of Carthage (I will not post it for you, do some research, it really is easy, just type in “council, carthage, canon”). You will see no such book is there. In fact it’s the same list we have today.

Answer: Professor Bruno Bauer, in his work of 1877 “Christ and the Caesars”, stated that he had concluded that the Romans had authored the New Testament and that Flavius Josephus was the inventor of Jesus.
The New Testament was written by Roman patricians, among them The Calpurnius Piso family that was descended from one of the generals in the army of Alexander the Great. The family included such famous people as Cleopatra, the Ptolemys, Pythagoras, Flavius Josephus, and the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius Vespasiani.
While these claims seem to have been documented by accreditable sources, I am haveing trouble proofing any such sources concerneing your claims. 🤷
Click to expand...
 
chase200mph said:
Really, can you post one… here is some of what I find interesting (not necessarily from the book).

Old Testament, Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus….
Old Testament, Joseph was born of a miracle birth…
New Testament, Jesus was born of a miracle birth…
Old Testament, Joseph had 12 brothers…
New Testament, Jesus had 12 disciples…
Old Testament, Joseph…. was sold for twenty pieces of silver.
New Testament, Jesus…. was sold for thirty pieces of silver.
Old Testament, Joseph…. brother Judah suggest the sale of Joseph….
New Testament, Jesus…. disciple Judas suggest the sale of Jesus….
Old Testament, Joseph began his work at thirty….
New Testament, Jesus began his work at thirty….

It seems to me that I keep hearing about the Flavius hypothesis counter claims, that I keep hearing about the existence of proof to the contrary of the hypothesis, yet everyone making these claims is just to darn busy to post them… I would like to study this closely kept secret, any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Why after 6 (or so) months is this Thread being continued? Why not start a new Thread?
 
sanctepiedecime said:
Hello, I am new to this site but I have been studying religion for quite some time now.

Notably, the theory suggests that the New Testament was created by Romans. The theory says stuff like the mark of the beast, 666, in Roman numerals VIVIVI, was merely an attempt to demonize Ceasar (veni vidi vici) and so forth.

I’d love some opinions on this. God bless!!
Click to expand...
Julius Caesar was born 100 years before Christ. So why would the revalation, written 100 AD (200 years after Caesar) be an attempt to criticize him.
 
chase200mph said:
Really, can you post one…
Click to expand...
No, this is an old thread (six months old). CAF forums discourage people from resurrecting old threads. I suggest that, if you wish to discuss the matter further, you open a new thread.
 
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