The fourth issue I have with Christianity in Human Rights

[TheBreak]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

My fourth issue is how to mix Christianity with Human Rights. I do believe strongly in the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says " All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and right. " which mean that all of us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists…etc) ( Poor, Rich…etc) ( Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual…etc) we are free and equal in dignity and rights. The right to live, to learn and to marry.

Now, I do believe that marriage is between man and woman inside the religious authority, but out of that marriage is union between two adults that love and care about each other.

I don’t wanna go into debate about marriage but I just had to let you know that.

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

and other issues that I’m not going to address here.

So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

 

[Least]

The only freedom you have is to defend yourself. Once that freedom is taken away it is too late to even consider any others.

Freedoms cost your life’s blood and are defended by violence. It’s got nothing to do with Christianity per se, it is just an inescapable matter of base human nature and physics.

If you think that another religion has a better lock on human rights than Christianity, you are off your meds.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Hi The Break, again you raise some interesting issues.

(i) Homosexual people do have a right to marry: a homosexual man has the right to marry a woman, and a homosexual woman has a right to marry a man. They are not denied the right to marry. What is denied is the ability to change what marriage is - if you change it, the remove the right entirely, so what’s the point?

(ii) Slavery was often an economic condition or the result of losing in warfare. The alternative to slavery was death or worse… In those situations, slavery was sometimes better. Having said that, if you look at how the Lord told Israel to treat their slaves, it was much more humane than any other people at the time. Also, you have to remember the context and level of development (one question is - what would Israel do if it defeated a rival kingdom in battle? If you couldn’t take slaves, you’d have to kill everyone). Finally, look at the Letter to Philemon and what it says about how a slave should be treated.

(iii) If you have so much respect for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is commendable, on what are these rights based? What is the objective foundation for human rights? (Incidentally, it was Catholic theologians that developed the concept of human rights during the late Middle Ages.)

 

[Razanir]

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

Simply put, it wasn’t slavery. The Biblical form of slavery is much more similar to what we’d today call indentured servitude. They were still treated well and could even earn their freedom

 

[SuperLuigi]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

My fourth issue is how to mix Christianity with Human Rights. I do believe strongly in the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says " All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and right. " which mean that all of us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists…etc) ( Poor, Rich…etc) ( Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual…etc) we are free and equal in dignity and rights. The right to live, to learn and to marry.

Now, I do believe that marriage is between man and woman inside the religious authority, but out of that marriage is union between two adults that love and care about each other.

I don’t wanna go into debate about marriage but I just had to let you know that.

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

and other issues that I’m not going to address here.

So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

In the US, marriage is not a Constitutional right for anyone .

One youtube Christian blogger notes that the reason why God permits human suffering is that it brings people closer to him.

As far as slavery goes, “slaves” were not people who were forcibly taken from another land, chained, shipped and sold. These were people who in many cases owed a debt of some sort and submitted themselves wholly for worldly restitution of sorts.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

My fourth issue is how to mix Christianity with Human Rights. I do believe strongly in the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says " All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and right. " which mean that all of us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists…etc) ( Poor, Rich…etc) ( Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual…etc) we are free and equal in dignity and rights. The right to live, to learn and to marry.

Now, I do believe that marriage is between man and woman inside the religious authority, but out of that marriage is union between two adults that love and care about each other.

I don’t wanna go into debate about marriage but I just had to let you know that.

I know you don’t want to debate marriage, but I’ve got to mention the counter point: all adults are free to marry (absent impediments, within sane restrictions, etc), but the definition of to marry is not, has never been, and makes no sense to be “to join in a union of two people who love each other.”

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

and other issues that I’m not going to address here.

So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

For many reasons, but partially because God guided His people to a right sense of morality rather than bashing them over the head with it. That is, He took a group of people that were more or less like all other people, then started leading them towards truth. Not all truth was revealed at once.

As for how to mix Christianity and Human rights: that’s not required. Human rights are part of and flow from (both historically and philosophically) Christian principals. It’s like asking how to mix a river and water.

 

[Nimzovik]

Slavery. Why does heaven get blamed for what people do?

There is more than just slavery involved here in this question. There are earthquakes, tornadoes tsunamis, volcanoes, wars etc etc etc.

Why not ask why heaven permitted these too?

War is often a punishment for sin as indicated by Fatima.

As for the other phenomenon, perhaps it is the result of a ‘fallen world.’

I do not think anyone this side of the grave has the complete answer here.

I do know that we as Christains have the exquisite benefit of praying against such things.

As for same sex marriage. Marriage is a function of the Christian model certainly. There it is defined as between a man and a woman. What secularists do and what those opposed to Christianity does is just that. It is what they choose to do. Homosexuals marry each other in their minds. Always have.

The debate today as I see it, is the legal re- defining of our country in terms of secularism or Christianity. Christianity opposes same sex marriage because of the ‘moral fallout’ of such sin running amok. Also because it is against the laws of heaven.

We Christians have a definition of ‘good.’ Good is what heaven says is good.

Try to get scularists to define and defend and agree as to what ‘good’ is.

When one does not have heaven in their lives, one is then cast upon the sea of their self - will run riot, and of miscellaneous doctrines and beliefs and the beliefs of the social engineers of society.

Methinks much of same sex marriage is being thrust upon the people of the world today by govenrments and well monied individuals. Like what is happening in France. Methinks this is in no small part due to people like the ZPG’ers. (Zero Population Growth.)

 

[bzkoss236]

I think you are confused as to what rights are. And Marriage isn’t a right.

 

[jediliz]

marriage is designed for the bringing forth of new life (and yes, there are exceptions to this like infertile couples (infertile male+female couples and elderly widowed couples who remarry later in life) and there are two purposes, neither can be achieved by “gay” marriage.

So, what about the rights of the child to grow up with a MOTHER and a FATHER? “gay” marriage denies this to any children who are adopted by them!

 

[meltzerboy]

Hi The Break, again you raise some interesting issues.

(i) Homosexual people do have a right to marry: a homosexual man has the right to marry a woman, and a homosexual woman has a right to marry a man. They are not denied the right to marry. What is denied is the ability to change what marriage is - if you change it, the remove the right entirely, so what’s the point?

(ii) Slavery was often an economic condition or the result of losing in warfare. The alternative to slavery was death or worse… In those situations, slavery was sometimes better. Having said that, if you look at how the Lord told Israel to treat their slaves, it was much more humane than any other people at the time. Also, you have to remember the context and level of development (one question is - what would Israel do if it defeated a rival kingdom in battle? If you couldn’t take slaves, you’d have to kill everyone). Finally, look at the Letter to Philemon and what it says about how a slave should be treated.

(iii) If you have so much respect for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is commendable, on what are these rights based? What is the objective foundation for human rights? (Incidentally, it was Catholic theologians that developed the concept of human rights during the late Middle Ages.)

FYI, in the Statute of Kalisz in 1264, the Duke of Greater Poland instituted a declaration of civil liberties for Jews living in Poland. This is one of the first instances in which human rights were accorded to a minority within a nation.

 

[jonathan_hili]

FYI, in the Statute of Kalisz in 1264, the Duke of Greater Poland instituted a declaration of civil liberties for Jews living in Poland. This is one of the first instances in which human rights were accorded to a minority within a nation.

Good on the good Duke!

 

[manualman]

So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

Relatively simply.

1. Gay marriage. Nobody that I am aware of is attempting to re-criminalize gay relationships. The controversy is about whether such relationships must be accorded the legal priviledges of marriage. Have you ever dated? Did you need a license to do so? Of course not! Marriage is regulated and given priviledges NOT because the state has an interest in our emotions, but because the state has an interest in a stable and self-perpetuating society. Real marriage is inherently ordered towards making and raising healthy, happy, educated and productive citizens. Gay marriage simply isn’t. There is nothing about the relationship of two gay men that inclines them towards making babies. (duh!) This is evidenced in the overwhelming empirical data which show that long term gay couple have much higher per capita household income than heterosexual couples. In short, they don’t NEED the extra perks the law gives real marriage. Those in a marriage that by nature leads to expensive rugrats are the ones that need it. Liberal laws on behavior and rational laws on marriage privileges are totally consistant with human rights principles.
2. Slavey of some sort was an almost universal symptom of major human cultures until the concepts of human dignity inherent in the christian idea of man being made in the image of God finally overcame the cultural usefulness of slavery. It’s not a coincidence that this happened in christian cultures, it’s an outgrowth of that principle of human dignity. Cultures that lack that basic recognition of human dignity and where it comes from will sooner or later resort to the treatment of human beings as resources to be used and/or exploited. It’s a fallen tendency of humankind that has to be resisted.

 

[Robyn_p]

Hi Break!

I think it’s important to know where our ideas of human rights come from? This is actually a very Christian idea. That God created man in his own image, and then came and took on human nature is what makes human beings so special!!! All human beings have a unique dignity because of this. It’s Christianity that introduced this concept historically. Why did it spread like wildfire in ancient pagan Rome?? Because this idea of every human person mattering, no matter their race, gender, or social status was so revolutionary and so freeing. For example, remember Paul’s famous statement, “There is no longer Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female. You are all one in Christ Jesus.” That was huge! Before only free males were considered valuable. Now the covenant relationship with God was opened to all people. Because of Christ.

So Christianity is not and never has been opposed to human rights. It preserved them. Just some food for thought.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

My fourth issue is how to mix Christianity with Human Rights. I do believe strongly in the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says " All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and right. " which mean that all of us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists…etc) ( Poor, Rich…etc) ( Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual…etc) we are free and equal in dignity and rights. The right to live, to learn and to marry.

Now, I do believe that marriage is between man and woman inside the religious authority, but out of that marriage is union between two adults that love and care about each other.

I don’t wanna go into debate about marriage but I just had to let you know that.

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

and other issues that I’m not going to address here.

So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

First, I suggest you figure out if you want to have an open and honest discussion. You state “I don’t wanna go into debate about marriage but I just had to let you know that.” after spending the first part of your comment talking about how marriage is a universal right (which you apparently don’t view it as such given that you qualified who you think should be able to marry- two adults).

Frankly, I fail to see how you can claim to believe in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights when you are so ready to turn your back on those who wish to marry more than one individual and or marry those deemed to not be adults (yeah, age of consent and the definition of when a person is deemed to be an adult vary by country and culture).

 

[aspirant]

I do believe strongly in the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights… So, how could I be Christian and at the same time be supportive to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.??

You could start by learning that Catholic philosopher Jacques Maritain had a leading role in drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. So when you’re reading the UDHR you are reading a document heavily influenced by Catholic thought. If you would like to become more familiar with his works, I’d recommend Integral Humanism, *Christianity and Democracy, and The Rights of Man and Natural Law *, Man and the State, or one of his many other books. I don’t know what your first language is, but many of his books are available in a variety of translations; he often wrote in his native French.

Here is an address on behalf of the Holy See to the United Nations Organization on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the UDHR by Silvano M. Tomasi.

Also slavery in the bible, always make me ask myself why did God allowed slavery. why didn’t he say no more slavery, why did he allowed it??

Catholics do not believe that God revealed everything all at once, but that divine revelation was a gradual process ultimately fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and that even now our own understanding of revelation is still unfolding. The English may be difficult for you, but by Joel S. PanzerThe Popes and Slavery is an excellent book that partially addresses your question.