The Glories of Mary - St. Alphonse Ligouri

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Hi all,

Whenever I try to tell Protestants that we do not worship Mary, they sometimes bring up “The Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonse Liguori. I’ve never read this, I’ve been told it must be taken “in context,” but what is this context? How do I defend this?
Recently I was asked about the “Haily Holy Queen” where it says “Mary - mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope.”
I explained that since Jesus is “Mercy, our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope,” it is just saying that Mary is the Mother of Christ.
My opponent claims that Liguori says the opposite. (Is this true)
Anyway I do not know how to respond and was looking for the truth of this matter. Thanks 🙂
 
Character Zero:
I explained that since Jesus is “Mercy, our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope,” it is just saying that Mary is the Mother of Christ.
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No you are wrong. The prayer calls Mary our life, our sweetness and our hope. This is absolutely clear from the Latin. Some people pray it this way:

Hail Holy Queen, mother of mercy.
Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
 
Thing is, the same word in different contexts can have different meanings.

For example, there is a sense, the truest and fullest sense, in which God is my “life, my sweetness, and my hope.”

There is another sense in which these same words can be applies to Mary, because God’s grace makes us god-like, and Mary is full of grace.

There’s another sense in which these words can be applied even to other creatures.

You don’t see where a poet might pay tribute to his own birth mother by referring to her as his “life, sweetness, and hope”?
 
Always look for context. They will frequently quote him saying that Mary is omnipotent. Well, Ligouri explains in a preface, and at least in two other places what he means–which, when considered, is perfectly acceptable theology (that is, Mary is not omnipotent in an absolute sense and independent of God, but she receives everything she asks of God, which would make anyone effectively omnipotent).

Or they might quote him about Mary being a mediator and then trot out the “sole mediator” passage from Scripture. Again Ligouri emphasizes Christ as the sole mediator of justice, but Mary (and anyone who prays for someone else and is answered) is a mediator of graces.

Great book, by the way.

Scott
 
Hi CZ

I think that what will help you most is to first establish what Liguori’s book is and what it is not . .

What happens is that anti-Catholic sites love to bring his work up (and DeMontefor’s True Devotion), quote him out of context, and then proclaim this is an example of Church teaching.

What they fail to realize is that this is a **DEVOTIONAL ** book, and as such is not Church teaching, and no one is required to adhere to its contents.

I firmly embrace what Liguori teaches as a devotional … this book is stupendous.

However, I won’t let someone pass it off as Church doctrine . . I call them on it . . and usually, the whole thing fizzels, as what they are trying to do is assert that it is an example of formal doctrine.

Once they understand it is devotional in nature, poetic, and must be understood in this light, then it is possibe to talk more about the actual words and phrases used. But as long as they are approaching it asa doctrinal statement, then they won’t be able to hear what you are saying . .

Turn the tables . . let them know they are barking up the wrong tree if they use it to attack the Catholic faith, as it is not a statement of doctrine . .no one is required to believe what Liguori wrote for their salvation . .

Stress that it is a devotional work . . . as many times as you need to do so to get the message across . . pretty soon, they will get the message . . and then, the doors can open . .

🙂

I hope this was helpful!

Peace in Him!
 
Hi there,

I’ve got the “Glories of Mary” book. I mainly got it to shuffle through some anti-Catholic stuff about Mary that they garnered from that book. Well, it’s from another version, so it’s hard to match up the page numbers. But from reading it, the ones I’ve found that the anti-Catholic took issue with were not out of context, per se. St. Liguori does have a good preface to the book explaining what he does and doesn’t mean regarding some things.

As for it being devotional, and not dogmatic, I’d say that there are certain things about Mary that are dogma, and the devotional aspect of the book flows from that defined dogma.

St. Ligouri does a great job of showing how Church Fathers interpreted Scripture typologically to teach how Mary is the “Mediatrix of all graces.” One of my favorites was
Jeremiah 31:22 "“For the Lord has created a new thing in the earth - A woman should encompass a man.” He showed how St. Bonaventure or somebody taught that since all graces come from Christ, they likewise flow through Mary, since she “encompasses Him” like while He was in the womb.

Granted, the book is very “Marian” to say the least, like, wow, he loves Mary!!! So, it gives plenty of ammo for anti-Catholics to shoot at ya. May I suggest a book by Father Mateo “Refuting the Attack on Mary” I understand it’s short, but concise. There are better books, but that one’s out of print, and there are only 17 left at Amazon, but if you go to amazon and search for that book, you can read reviews and get pointers on other good books.

Did I just tell somebody how to learn more about Mary???
 
Reformed Rob:
Granted, the book is very “Marian” to say the least, like, wow, he loves Mary!!! So, it gives plenty of ammo for anti-Catholics to shoot at ya.
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As if there was something wrong with loving Mary!

Thanks for sharing Rob.
 
Thank you all very much. 🙂
I’m going to be digesting all of this information, and I’m at Dave Armstrong’s site right now (I love that place!) and hopefully I can get together a good response.
I am troubled by the dialogue I am having with this Protestant.
It started when I randomly came across some website with all of these false teachings about Mary, a very anti-Catholic place. So I sent a kind and short email to the site saying I believed they were in error, and asked if they’d like to discuss this with me.
Here was the first response:
Only one point needs to be considered: Do you agree with the rosary
prayer that Mary is “our life, sweetness and hope”?
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If you say yes, you are guilty of idolatry and deceived. If you say no, then you
are not really in agreement with the RC church over a major Tradition and
prayer in this religious system.
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I’m going back and forth with him, and he keeps calling me a liar, and will not call me a friend or tell me his name. Also, when I called him “brother,” he said we are not brothers.

Please pray that I will be given the grace to respond in charity, and withstand his unkind words.
 
Character:

If he’s as hard-hearted as you say he is, why do you bother? Don’t you have better things to do in your spare time, like minister to people on whom you might actually effect some change?

Just a thought.
 
The answer is: you never know. I can only be kind. If he wants to stop talking to me, then fine. But if he is willing to, maybe I can at least clear up misconceptions. Maybe he will not convert, but maybe he will stop spreading lies?
 
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theresepio:
Hi CZ

I think that what will help you most is to first establish what Liguori’s book is and what it is not . .

What happens is that anti-Catholic sites love to bring his work up (and DeMontefor’s True Devotion), quote him out of context, and then proclaim this is an example of Church teaching.

What they fail to realize is that this is a **DEVOTIONAL **book, and as such is not Church teaching, and no one is required to adhere to its contents.

I firmly embrace what Liguori teaches as a devotional … this book is stupendous.

However, I won’t let someone pass it off as Church doctrine . . I call them on it . . and usually, the whole thing fizzels, as what they are trying to do is assert that it is an example of formal doctrine.

Once they understand it is devotional in nature, poetic, and must be understood in this light, then it is possibe to talk more about the actual words and phrases used. But as long as they are approaching it asa doctrinal statement, then they won’t be able to hear what you are saying . .

Turn the tables . . let them know they are barking up the wrong tree if they use it to attack the Catholic faith, as it is not a statement of doctrine . .no one is required to believe what Liguori wrote for their salvation . .

Stress that it is a devotional work . . . as many times as you need to do so to get the message across . . pretty soon, they will get the message . . and then, the doors can open . .

🙂

I hope this was helpful!

Peace in Him!
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Why do we as Catholics sometimes WASTE our precious God given time trying to convince members of CULTS?? I say CULTS because they are the ones who love to attack the Catholic Church and of course as usual misinterpret everything CATHOLIC to their convenience. CULTS=pentecostals, baptists,mormons, jehovah’s witnesses, adventists, “church of christ”, evengelicals, “born-agains”, etc, etc, etc, etc. and other storefront churches. At least: the Episcopals, Lutherans, and in SOME cases methodists RESPECT most of what the CATHOLIC CHURCH teaches. EVEN our JEWISH brothers and sisters seem to accept and understand our Faith. However, certain FUNDAMENTALIST “christian” cults, are so angry with the Catholic Church.
Please, lets not waste our time arguing and trying to convice the brainwashed. Best method in this case: PRAYER.
 
Reformed Rob:
Did I just tell somebody how to learn more about Mary???
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😃

I love it Rob! 🙂

Thank you for letting us know Father Mateo’s book is out of print … there is one copy at the Catholic bookstore at the convent where our girls participate in an excellent girl’s club, so perhaps I should pick it up! 😉

I am wondering though . . . how long you are going to be known by the name 'Reformed Rob" . . . . ? ? ?

Is there a posibility of a name change somwhere down the road, such as to 'Catholic Rob" ?? 😃

You know, I beleive that how one responds to Mary tells a lot about what is in one’s heart. 🙂

Peace in Him!
 
Character Zero:
Thank you all very much. 🙂
I’m going to be digesting all of this information, and I’m at Dave Armstrong’s site right now (I love that place!) and hopefully I can get together a good response.
I am troubled by the dialogue I am having with this Protestant.
It started when I randomly came across some website with all of these false teachings about Mary, a very anti-Catholic place. So I sent a kind and short email to the site saying I believed they were in error, and asked if they’d like to discuss this with me.
Here was the first response:

I’m going back and forth with him, and he keeps calling me a liar, and will not call me a friend or tell me his name. Also, when I called him “brother,” he said we are not brothers.

Please pray that I will be given the grace to respond in charity, and withstand his unkind words.
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Pray about whether or not you should be engaged in thsi conversation . … I know how you feel about it . .

There was one I was engaged with on a regular basis, but his anticatholicism was so extreme, and his hatred of the Church so great, that I was very afraid for his soul, unlike any other . . and he was an ex Catholic! So I stopped responding to him altogether as I was fearful of contributing to his blaspehemies by giving him the opportunity to do so further . . I was truly fearful for his eternal soul.

The bible tells us not to cast our pearls before swine . … you must exercise caution, prudence and wisdom in this . … 🙂

Peace in Him!
 
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misericordie:
Why do we as Catholics sometimes WASTE our precious God given time trying to convince members of CULTS?? I say CULTS because they are the ones who love to attack the Catholic Church and of course as usual misinterpret everything CATHOLIC to their convenience. CULTS=pentecostals, baptists,mormons, jehovah’s witnesses, adventists, “church of christ”, evengelicals, “born-agains”, etc, etc, etc, etc. and other storefront churches. At least: the Episcopals, Lutherans, and in SOME cases methodists RESPECT most of what the CATHOLIC CHURCH teaches. EVEN our JEWISH brothers and sisters seem to accept and understand our Faith. However, certain FUNDAMENTALIST “christian” cults, are so angry with the Catholic Church.
Please, lets not waste our time arguing and trying to convice the brainwashed. Best method in this case: PRAYER.
Click to expand...
Knowing more about the type of person this guy is, I am also in agreement that it may not be in his or the OP’s best interests to continue this . … Prayer is indeed the key . . .

Peace in Him!
 
One thing you must remeber is that a lot of Marian devotion is writeen in the language of love.

Read the Song of Songs same thing they seem to put the lover on the par with God. But that’s not the author content or context.
Let’s say you say to your wife your my life. my sweetness and my hope. WEll is your wife God is n’t god alone due this language?
When you talk of love about creatures whether it be Mary or your wife romantic language gets flowery to express the signficance of the love expressed. But it shoudln’t be confused with theological assertations. Thus it is wise to read Ligourri’s preface where he clarifies what his writings mean to be. Not the deification of Mary but the love of Mary two very differnent things.
Of course if you are a protestant you’ll never get the love of Mary thing. I am sorry but modern day protestants don’t love Mary.
They may respect her or admire her but they don’t love her the way catholics do its a fact. Thus we desribe her in words of love.
 
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