The Graver Sin

[expectthebest]

Both involve rejection of God’s authority and a desire to separate yourself from Him. Therefore, both are worthy of hell.

The thing is that most people who murder likely KNOW what they’re doing is evil and do so willingly. If that’s true, then most of them would be in a state of mortal sin

OTOH, most Catholics who fail to keep the Lenten fast may know it’s wrong, but not be aware of WHY or that it entails rejection of God’s authority. If so, very few would be committing mortal sin.

Yes, but let’s assume that both are mortal when the person dies. Both will go to hell. Do both people deserve and/or receive the same punishment for sins of differing evil.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

This question specifically regards the seriousness of sin for any one person who has become a fallen away Catholic by specifically leaving the Catholic Church for a Protestant denomination (let’s just say, it is a comparatively conservative Protestant denomination in Anglicanism, Luteranism, Evangelicalism, Methodist, etc.)

With that in mind, which would you say is the graver, or more serious, sin?

1. To be a Catholic, but to be a nominal Catholic by apathetically receiving the Eucharist, not going to Mass every Sunday, being lazy with one’s relationship with Christ and inactive in one’s faith,

or,

1. To be a practicing conservative Protestant by being active in one’s faith by going to a church service every Sunday, active in prayer, have a sincere love for God, and have a incomplete or incorrect understanding of what the Catholic Church really is or teaches?

easy, #2

whats the point of being alive for Christ, yet outside the prescribed authority granted in matt 16:18?

 

[chris_molter]

Yes, but let’s assume that both are mortal when the person dies. Both will go to hell. Do both people deserve and/or receive the same punishment for sins of differing evil.

Who says they’re differing evil? In your example both persons fully willed to do something they knew would separate them from God for all time.

 

[steve_b]

This question specifically regards the seriousness of sin for any one person who has become a fallen away Catholic by specifically leaving the Catholic Church for a Protestant denomination (let’s just say, it is a comparatively conservative Protestant denomination in Anglicanism, Luteranism, Evangelicalism, Methodist, etc.)

With that in mind, which would you say is the graver, or more serious, sin?

1. To be a Catholic, but to be a nominal Catholic by apathetically receiving the Eucharist, not going to Mass every Sunday, being lazy with one’s relationship with Christ and inactive in one’s faith,

or,

1. To be a practicing conservative Protestant by being active in one’s faith by going to a church service every Sunday, active in prayer, have a sincere love for God, and have a incomplete or incorrect understanding of what the Catholic Church really is or teaches?

If I may, allow me to re present your question in another way, from the 1st century perspective.

Paul is speaking to the Church of Rome.

Rm 16:

**17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. ****20The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. **
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

With regards to division and dissent, Paul explains further what the consequences for that behavior is

Gal 5:

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Given the genesis of Protestantism in the 16th century was breaking with the Church of Rome, and Paul is not tollerant of division and dissent,

• are Paul’s warnings against division and dissent not serious for Protestants?
• did Paul give wiggle room or mitigating circumstances approving division?

 

[expectthebest]

Who says they’re differing evil? In your example both persons fully willed to do something they knew would separate them from God for all time.

So you are saying that knowingly eating meat on a Lenten friday has the same level of evil as knowingly murdering hundreds of people?

 

[Brooklyn]

So you are saying that knowingly eating meat on a Lenten friday has the same level of evil as knowingly murdering hundreds of people?

There is objective sin, but the guilt that is imputed definitely varies. I think of the story in the Gospels of the widow who gave 2 coins to the Temple, which objectively is nothing. Yet, Christ said that she gave more than all the rest, because it was everything she had.

I think that is basically how God imputes sin to us. Objectively, eating meat on Lenten Friday would not have the same level of evil as murdering hundreds of people. But subjectively, it could be much graver, because as pointed out in earlier posts, the murderer could have mental problems that he can’t handle, but the person who knowingly and with deliberate action eats meat on Lenten Friday with full knowledge it is forbidden by the Church is thumbing his nose at the Church and at the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and he would be guilty of hell fire.

It is not our outward actions that matter as much as what is in our hearts. That is what constitutes mortal sin.

Mary

 

[expectthebest]

There is objective sin, but the guilt that is imputed definitely varies. I think of the story in the Gospels of the widow who gave 2 coins to the Temple, which objectively is nothing. Yet, Christ said that she gave more than all the rest, because it was everything she had.

I think that is basically how God imputes sin to us. Objectively, eating meat on Lenten Friday would not have the same level of evil as murdering hundreds of people. But subjectively, it could be much graver, because as pointed out in earlier posts, the murderer could have mental problems that he can’t handle, but the person who knowingly and with deliberate action eats meat on Lenten Friday with full knowledge it is forbidden by the Church is thumbing his nose at the Church and at the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and he would be guilty of hell fire.

It is not our outward actions that matter as much as what is in our hearts. That is what constitutes mortal sin.

Mary

But, the same punishment is given to objective acts with large varying degrees of evil, assuming and equal subjectivity?

 

[chris_molter]

But, the same punishment is given to objective acts with large varying degrees of evil, assuming and equal subjectivity?

I think we’re overlooking the difference between temporal and eternal punishment as well here. Any mortal sin is a rejection of God and is sufficient to separate us from Him forever. Now, TEMPORALLY, some mortal sins are lesser or greater than others (rape versus missing Mass, for example), but either one committed with full consent and knowledge will put you in the big fire because you’re choosing to do something that entails rejecting God and choosing something else in His place.

 

[expectthebest]

I think we’re overlooking the difference between temporal and eternal punishment as well here. Any mortal sin is a rejection of God and is sufficient to separate us from Him forever. Now, TEMPORALLY, some mortal sins are lesser or greater than others (rape versus missing Mass, for example), but either one committed with full consent and knowledge will put you in the big fire because you’re choosing to do something that entails rejecting God and choosing something else in His place.

If the sins are of different levels of evil, would justice not demand that there are different degrees of punishment?

 

[Snerticus]

This question specifically regards the seriousness of sin for any one person who has become a fallen away Catholic by specifically leaving the Catholic Church for a Protestant denomination (let’s just say, it is a comparatively conservative Protestant denomination in Anglicanism, Luteranism, Evangelicalism, Methodist, etc.)

With that in mind, which would you say is the graver, or more serious, sin?

1. To be a Catholic, but to be a nominal Catholic by apathetically receiving the Eucharist, not going to Mass every Sunday, being lazy with one’s relationship with Christ and inactive in one’s faith,

or,

1. To be a practicing conservative Protestant by being active in one’s faith by going to a church service every Sunday, active in prayer, have a sincere love for God, and have a incomplete or incorrect understanding of what the Catholic Church really is or teaches?

Depending on the reasons for leaving, #2 wouldn’t be a grave sin at all, and may even bring that person back to the fullness of faith in time. Much like the prodigal son.

 

[chris_molter]

If the sins are of different levels of evil, would justice not demand that there are different degrees of punishment?

Temporally, yes. But eternally speaking, the sin is the same (rejection of God), and therefore, the punishment is also eternal.

 

[expectthebest]

Temporally, yes. But eternally speaking, the sin is the same (rejection of God), and therefore, the punishment is also eternal.

It seems very odd to me that one can expect the same punishment for missing Mass on Sunday as someone who murders thousdands, if not millions of people. It does not fit within the traditional Judeo-Christian sense of the punishment fitting the crime. Or does it?

 

[chris_molter]

It seems very odd to me that one can expect the same punishment for missing Mass on Sunday as someone who murders thousdands, if not millions of people. It does not fit within the traditional Judeo-Christian sense of the punishment fitting the crime. Or does it?

It does. Remember that when we sin, we’re offending two parties. God and whomever else we injure (including ourselves). Offending God via mortal sin merits eternal damnation (yes, it’s that easy to deserve hell).

However the temporal punishment for sins varies by degree. Missing Mass would merit a smaller temporal punishment than mass murder, I’d think.