P
Peacemonger
Guest
Christendom would have to fight for its life,…
A very long article, but interesting: tcrnews2.com/IslamBelloc2005.html
A very long article, but interesting: tcrnews2.com/IslamBelloc2005.html
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M
Michael_C
Guest
So when intolerant westerners want to have a mutually respectful dialogue with peaceful muslim palestinians who should they have been speaking to the last few decdes? There’s noone to talk to but, the homicide bombers keep coming.
C
cestusdei
Guest
Muslims do seem to understand the language of force. They seem ready to talk to Israel now that their terrorist leaders are being killed off and the wall keeps the bombers at bay. A lesson learned.
A
AJC
Guest
The Pope and that Koran incident in Assisi has always bothered me. I have yet to get a straight answer from anyone, including Catholic Answers as to when Islam stopped being a heresy?
Since history is my purview I do all in my power to explain, to the great unwashed, who go on and on about “the crimes of The Crusades” that prior to the rise of Islam the Mediteranean Sea was a “Christian” lake. Just how does one suppose the Muslims converted all those Christians, with coffee and donuts? Islam, despite what Bush 43 thinks, is a religion built upon the use of force. Neither W nor the Holy Father seem to understand that fact.
Since history is my purview I do all in my power to explain, to the great unwashed, who go on and on about “the crimes of The Crusades” that prior to the rise of Islam the Mediteranean Sea was a “Christian” lake. Just how does one suppose the Muslims converted all those Christians, with coffee and donuts? Islam, despite what Bush 43 thinks, is a religion built upon the use of force. Neither W nor the Holy Father seem to understand that fact.
G
gilliam
Guest
German cardinal says dialogue with Islam not possible
Berlin, Dec. 10 (CWNews.com) - Germany’s Cardinal Karl Lehmann told a newspaper that he didn’t think Christians and Muslims could engage in a productive dialogue. The Archbishop of Mainz said in the interview in *Die Welt *published on Thursday that Muslims do not consider Christians as equals and that Islam is a religion based on war and conquest.
Relations between Christians and Muslims has become a tense topic in Germany, as it has in the rest of Europe, with Germans wondering how to integrate 2.3 million mainly foreign-born Muslims into their society.
Berlin, Dec. 10 (CWNews.com) - Germany’s Cardinal Karl Lehmann told a newspaper that he didn’t think Christians and Muslims could engage in a productive dialogue. The Archbishop of Mainz said in the interview in *Die Welt *published on Thursday that Muslims do not consider Christians as equals and that Islam is a religion based on war and conquest.
Relations between Christians and Muslims has become a tense topic in Germany, as it has in the rest of Europe, with Germans wondering how to integrate 2.3 million mainly foreign-born Muslims into their society.
G
gilliam
Guest
In its document Nostra Aetate, the Second Vatican Council called upon the faithful to recognize and explore the rich spiritual heritage common to Christianity and Islam so that the future of Christian-Muslim relations may no longer center around violent confrontation but rather around peaceful and mutually enriching exchange and dialogue.
S
Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Well, the official Church position on Mohammedism isn’t cloudy at all. Here is the Catholic Encyclopedia’s writeup.
G
gilliam
Guest
This encyclopedia was written in 1917, way before Vatican II
G
gilliam
Guest
"All this hold true not only for Christians but also for all men of good will, in whose hearts grace is active invisibly. For since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destine, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possiblity of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery."
(Declaration by the Congregation of the Faith, Dominus Jesus: On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church, 12, quoting Vatican Council II, Guaduim et Spes, 22)
The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions (Non-Christian Religions). She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and teachings, which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that trugh which enlightens all men.
(Vatican Coucil II, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, 2)
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their consience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
(Vatical Council II, Lumen Gentium, 14)
**Second Vativan Council, *Nostra Aetate (3), *October 28, 1965:
**“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship
God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the
Creator of heaven and earth [Cf. St. Gregory Vii, Letter III, 21 to
Anazir (Al-Nasir), King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451 A.], who has
spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve
to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself
to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.
Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as
a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at time,
devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgement and the
reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this
reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God,
especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting … Over the
centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between
Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all
to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to
achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them
together preserve and promote peace, social justice and moral values.”
**John Paul II, to the Catholic Communith of Ankara (Turkey),
November 19, 1979:
**“My brothers, when I think of this spiritual heritage [Islam] and the
value it has for man and for society, its capacity of offering,
particularly in the young, guidance for life, filing the gap left by
materialism, and giving a reliable foundation to social and
juridicial organization, I wonder if it is not urgent, precisely today
when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of
history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite
us, in order to preserve and promote together for the benefit of all
men, ‘peace, liberty, social justice and moral values’ as the
Council calls upon us to do (NA 3).”
**John Paul II to the young Muslims of Morocco, August 19, 1985:
**“Christians and Muslims have many things in common, as believers
as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs
of hope, but also my multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a
model of faith in God, of submission to His will and of confidence in His
goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God,
the God who created the world and brings His creatures to their
perfection.”
**John Paul II on his arrival in Syria, may 5, 2001:
**"Today, in a world that is increasingly complex and interdependent,
there is a need for a new spirit of dialogue and cooperation between
Christians and Muslims. Together we ackowledge the one indivisible God,
the Creator of all that exists. Together we must proclaim to the world
that the name of the one God is ‘a name of peace and a summons to
peace’ (Novo Millennio Ineunte, 55)!"
(Declaration by the Congregation of the Faith, Dominus Jesus: On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church, 12, quoting Vatican Council II, Guaduim et Spes, 22)
The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions (Non-Christian Religions). She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and teachings, which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that trugh which enlightens all men.
(Vatican Coucil II, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, 2)
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their consience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
(Vatical Council II, Lumen Gentium, 14)
**Second Vativan Council, *Nostra Aetate (3), *October 28, 1965:
**“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship
God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the
Creator of heaven and earth [Cf. St. Gregory Vii, Letter III, 21 to
Anazir (Al-Nasir), King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451 A.], who has
spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve
to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself
to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.
Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as
a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at time,
devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgement and the
reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this
reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God,
especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting … Over the
centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between
Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all
to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to
achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them
together preserve and promote peace, social justice and moral values.”
**John Paul II, to the Catholic Communith of Ankara (Turkey),
November 19, 1979:
**“My brothers, when I think of this spiritual heritage [Islam] and the
value it has for man and for society, its capacity of offering,
particularly in the young, guidance for life, filing the gap left by
materialism, and giving a reliable foundation to social and
juridicial organization, I wonder if it is not urgent, precisely today
when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of
history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite
us, in order to preserve and promote together for the benefit of all
men, ‘peace, liberty, social justice and moral values’ as the
Council calls upon us to do (NA 3).”
**John Paul II to the young Muslims of Morocco, August 19, 1985:
**“Christians and Muslims have many things in common, as believers
as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs
of hope, but also my multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a
model of faith in God, of submission to His will and of confidence in His
goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God,
the God who created the world and brings His creatures to their
perfection.”
**John Paul II on his arrival in Syria, may 5, 2001:
**"Today, in a world that is increasingly complex and interdependent,
there is a need for a new spirit of dialogue and cooperation between
Christians and Muslims. Together we ackowledge the one indivisible God,
the Creator of all that exists. Together we must proclaim to the world
that the name of the one God is ‘a name of peace and a summons to
peace’ (Novo Millennio Ineunte, 55)!"
K
kjvail
Guest
More pre- VII wisdom on Mohammad, perhaps the orginator of the thread had this chapter of Belloc’s *The Great Hereasies *in mind when he started it.
The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed
The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed
K
kjvail
Guest
For anyone that is interested the original article is a chapter from a book by one of the great Catholic historians Hilaire Belloc. The rest of the book is here :
The Great Heresies
The Great Heresies
N
Nichevo
Guest
I doubt there will ever be peace between the two religions. Islam is a religion that views everything else as being subservient to it, hence the fact that the remaining Christians in muslim lands have to pay taxes.
I see continued conflict in that area until someone finally takes a stand and puts a halt to violent islamist expansion or, God forbid, islamists succeed in their goal of conversion at the point of the sword or the ballot box. Look at Europe and the problems it now faces with a muslim population that is unwilling to assimilate or at the very least, (such as Hassidic Jews), establish a realtionship of coexistence with the dominant culture. Lax European immigration laws have allowed radical islam to succeed where it failed long ago at the battle of Leponto in 1521.
Mohammed wasn’t a prophet he was a profiteer who long ago saw the sense of monopolizing his business (trade) via the guise of religion. We continue to pay the price for his heresy today.
I see continued conflict in that area until someone finally takes a stand and puts a halt to violent islamist expansion or, God forbid, islamists succeed in their goal of conversion at the point of the sword or the ballot box. Look at Europe and the problems it now faces with a muslim population that is unwilling to assimilate or at the very least, (such as Hassidic Jews), establish a realtionship of coexistence with the dominant culture. Lax European immigration laws have allowed radical islam to succeed where it failed long ago at the battle of Leponto in 1521.
Mohammed wasn’t a prophet he was a profiteer who long ago saw the sense of monopolizing his business (trade) via the guise of religion. We continue to pay the price for his heresy today.
- Status