The great divide

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When Christianity was irretrievably divided into Catholics and Protestants by Martin Luther and others, a third party entered the divorce: Secularism. According to three authors cited below, Protestantism is doomed, and the final battle for the souls of men will be between Atheism and Catholicism.

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

“[O]ur posterity will tend more and more to a single division into two parts – some relinquishing Christianity entirely, and others returning to the bosom of the Church of Rome.”
Alexis de Tocqueville,* Democracy in America *(1835), Bk I, ch. VI.

“Rome and the atheists have gained … These two shall fight it out – these two; Protestantism being retained for the base of operations sly by Atheism.”
Herman Melville, The Piazza Tales (1876), p. 406.

“I came to the conclusion that there was no medium, in true philosophy, between Atheism and Catholicity, and that a perfectly consistent mind, under those circumstances in which it finds itself here below, must embrace either the one or the other.”
The Venerable Cardinal Newman, Apologia, (1883), p. 198.
 
Well considering that in many areas, such as Latin America, Protestant Churches are making gains in Catholic areas, this doesn’t seem to add up. It also ignores the existence of Orthodoxy and non-Christian religions.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
When Christianity was irretrievably divided into Catholics and Protestants by Martin Luther and others, a third party entered the divorce: Secularism. According to three authors cited below, Protestantism is doomed, and the final battle for the souls of men will be between Atheism and Catholicism.

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

“[O]ur posterity will tend more and more to a single division into two parts – some relinquishing Christianity entirely, and others returning to the bosom of the Church of Rome.”
Alexis de Tocqueville,* Democracy in America *(1835), Bk I, ch. VI.

“Rome and the atheists have gained … These two shall fight it out – these two; Protestantism being retained for the base of operations sly by Atheism.”
Herman Melville, The Piazza Tales (1876), p. 406.

“I came to the conclusion that there was no medium, in true philosophy, between Atheism and Catholicity, and that a perfectly consistent mind, under those circumstances in which it finds itself here below, must embrace either the one or the other.”
The Venerable Cardinal Newman, Apologia, (1883), p. 198.
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I disagree. Most studies I’ve seen have shown Protestants increasing in % of population while Catholics have held or declined. The trend could change, but only time will tell.

Onto the more serious point of those quotes, I would hope that at some point Christians would move beyond the bickering and petty fights that (for the most part) are the cause of the division between the branches. [YES, I know that there are some major points we disagree on, but my personal believe is those are vastly outnumbered by minor issues]. So, I could see a future where it is (as it used to be) Christian and non-Christian. (I doubt other religions would die out that easily.)
 
TxGodfollower said:
I disagree. Most studies I’ve seen have shown Protestants increasing in % of population while Catholics have held or declined. The trend could change, but only time will tell.

Onto the more serious point of those quotes, I would hope that at some point Christians would move beyond the bickering and petty fights that (for the most part) are the cause of the division between the branches. [YES, I know that there are some major points we disagree on, but my personal believe is those are vastly outnumbered by minor issues]. So, I could see a future where it is (as it used to be) Christian and non-Christian. (I doubt other religions would die out that easily.)
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It’s better to not make compromises. Compromising what you believe in means you are no longer following the faith that you consider true. Getting too used to making compromises could also lead you down a slippery slope where we do end up with one Christian Church, but it has absolutely no definite doctrines because of compromising with so many denominations with so many conflicting beliefs.
 
randomusername said:
It’s better to not make compromises. Compromising what you believe in means you are no longer following the faith that you consider true. Getting too used to making compromises could also lead you down a slippery slope where we do end up with one Christian Church, but it has absolutely no definite doctrines because of compromising with so many denominations with so many conflicting beliefs.
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Great point. I wasn’t intending to imply a compromise, rather that we would have a civilized discussion and agree on the truth.
 
At least we all pray to the same God,we just have different interpretations ,does it really matter ?
 
Charlemagne_III said:
When Christianity was irretrievably divided into Catholics and Protestants by Martin Luther and others, a third party entered the divorce: Secularism. According to three authors cited below, Protestantism is doomed, and the final battle for the souls of men will be between Atheism and Catholicism.

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

“[O]ur posterity will tend more and more to a single division into two parts – some relinquishing Christianity entirely, and others returning to the bosom of the Church of Rome.”
Alexis de Tocqueville,* Democracy in America *(1835), Bk I, ch. VI.

“Rome and the atheists have gained … These two shall fight it out – these two; Protestantism being retained for the base of operations sly by Atheism.”
Herman Melville, The Piazza Tales (1876), p. 406.

“I came to the conclusion that there was no medium, in true philosophy, between Atheism and Catholicity, and that a perfectly consistent mind, under those circumstances in which it finds itself here below, must embrace either the one or the other.”
The Venerable Cardinal Newman, Apologia, (1883), p. 198.
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I agree. But only for the West- I suppose Russians, Middle Eastern folk, etc. have other options.

But in the West (including Anglophone America), it really comes down to atheism or Catholicism. Protestantism is moribund. I think the Anglican Church doomed itself when they starting having female clergy. Most Protestants seems to recognise that the Catholic Church is the ‘real thing’- and that they are just continuing to exist by a thread.

‘Liberal Christianity’, is, IMO, worse than atheism. Any group which allows female clergy, or homosexuals, etc., is just a parody of Christianity, and makes liturgy just like a ‘dress-up’ game.

Let’s hope the Catholic Church remains strong in its adherance to the Gospel- and doesn’t weaken about divorce, etc., and continues to fight ‘humanism’ and ‘secularism’ in all their malignant forms.
 
I don’t think it will come down to a polarized situation of Catholics on one side and Atheists in the other. The world tends to be like that - communism vs capitalism, consumerism vs religious and secular totalitarianism, but with the Spirit things are different. We each have an individual relationship with God which can be called by different names, and is oft times unconscious. The different faiths, organized or individual, reflect this. Where would someone with a fixed identification as being “a homosexual”, rejecting what the Church teaches go, when God calls him? Although they are not necessary, divisions will not thwart God’s will. The different faiths can help as first steps along the Way. They are helpful in identifying and clarifying important matters of faith. The important thing is for God’s Church to be true to its founder, Jesus Christ. We pray that, as the soul of this world, guided by the Holy Spirit, it will continue in its mission to lead through action and counsel, ever focussed on the Truth, who is Love.
 
Thought by the title that this was going to be about the Great Schism between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox.
I am dissapointed.
 
Nihilist said:
I agree. But only for the West- I suppose Russians, Middle Eastern folk, etc. have other options.

But in the West (including Anglophone America), it really comes down to atheism or Catholicism. Protestantism is moribund. I think the Anglican Church doomed itself when they starting having female clergy. Most Protestants seems to recognise that the Catholic Church is the ‘real thing’- and that they are just continuing to exist by a thread.

’Liberal Christianity’, is, IMO, worse than atheism. Any group which allows female clergy, or homosexuals, etc., is just a parody of Christianity, and makes liturgy just like a ‘dress-up’ game.

Let’s hope the Catholic Church remains strong in its adherance to the Gospel- and doesn’t weaken about divorce, etc., and continues to fight ‘humanism’ and ‘secularism’ in all their malignant forms.
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It’s honestly attitutdes like this that are responsible for so many people leaving Christianity, especially Catholicism.

On behalf of freethinkers everywhere, I thank you for making our job easier.👍
 
Charlemagne_III said:
That’s what cracks me up about most freethinkers. They are determinists, not free thinkers. :rolleyes:
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. . . that, which would contradict themselves, but generally simply not good listeners and actually fundementalists in their own way,
 
Winterwolf00 said:
It’s honestly attitutdes like this that are responsible for so many people leaving Christianity, especially Catholicism.

On behalf of freethinkers everywhere, I thank you for making our job easier.👍
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The central thing about Christianity is not liturgy, cultural practice, or vague, ‘let’s be nice’ ethics, etc., but rather about following the Divine Law, as expressed by God, and definitively in the Gospel.

It is better to be an atheist, than to be a Christian, but act in a manner contrary to Divine Law. At least the atheist can plead ignorance, or error.

Liberal Christianity wants to adapt Christian beliefs to fashionable and ‘politically correct’ points of view. Liberal Christianity often conceals crypto-capitalist tendencies. True Christianity always places its follows at odds with the world and its lies.

Yes, the Church may lose some members. Better a numerically smaller Church, with more zeal, and more sharply and courageously in opposition to secular values.

As for so-called free-thinkers- well, a lot of conformists, in my opinion. In fact, free-thinkers a less tolerant of free throught than many others.
 
TxGodfollower said:
I disagree. Most studies I’ve seen have shown Protestants increasing in % of population while Catholics have held or declined. The trend could change, but only time will tell.

I would have to say I think that trend will change. It should be noted that these increases in Protestantism are virtually all Evangelical Christians and not Mainline Protestantism. I would consider the mainline churches (presbyterian, anglican, reformed) to have more intellectual substance, especially the reformed tradition, while Evangelical Christianity is something of a pop culture phenomena that will eventually run its course.
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