The Great Silence

[Malperdy]

1. If extra-terrestrial beings with human-like souls exist in the vast universe, would we be obliged to visit or communicate with them as missionaries for Christ?

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

1. Some scientists argue that the necessary conditions for the presence of human life are so very rare that The Great Silence is simply to be expected. There is no-one else! If, then, human-like extra-terrestrials do not exist, there seem to be two possibilities. Either God intends the human race eventually to populate the galaxies over a hugely extended period of time; or, God never intended humans to develop the means of doing so. What are the implications of each of these these alternatives, and which seems more likely?

---

[This follows on some of the discussion in the thread *Why did God create such a large universe? but takes a look at some other issues.]

 

[AndyF]

1. If extra-terrestrial beings with human-like souls exist in the vast universe, would we be obliged to visit or communicate with them as missionaries for Christ?

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

1. Some scientists argue that the necessary conditions for the presence of human life are so very rare that The Great Silence is simply to be expected. There is no-one else! If, then, human-like extra-terrestrials do not exist, there seem to be two possibilities. Either God intends the human race eventually to populate the galaxies over a hugely extended period of time; or, God never intended humans to develop the means of doing so. What are the implications of each of these these alternatives, and which seems more likely?

---

[This follows on some of the discussion in the thread *Why did God create such a large universe?

but takes a look at some other issues.]

The existance of ET’s would have a much more serious implication than just how man’s social interaction with them would be.

It affects core Dogma, the redemption, original sin and probably everything else about our Faith. For instance if they sin and probagate through the same general method and have the same genetic transfer system, (possibly varying in method slightly ), are they also stigmatized with OS because of one initial falling out?. Is there another redemption scenerio played out for them?. Are there also ET saints in heaven? various heavens? The questions would go on and on.

So I can see why a discovery of this sort would eclipse the earth/sun hypothesis. It would have all the theologians scrambling, with a possible new “Universal Bible” published.

AndyF

 

[Yerusalyim]

While the discovery of life outside the earth would bring some questions theologically speaking, it would not negate the core of Christianity.

The “great silence,” scientifically speaking is most probably related to the fact of BIG UNIVERSE, small earth…unless it’s pointed straight at earth a signal wouldn’t reach us. We’ve search so few stars…

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

1. If extra-terrestrial beings with human-like souls exist in the vast universe, would we be obliged to visit or communicate with them as missionaries for Christ?

Your assumption is that they do have human-like souls. They wouldn’t have to. Angels are different beings than we are and exist in our small universe. It’s definitely possible that God created others in the universe to different specifications with different plans. Christ always mentioned the earth in evangelism, not anywhere else.

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

Maybe they are developed as we are - unable to travel that far or correspond at such a great distance. Our assumption is that ET’s are more advanced. Perhaps they are not.

1. Some scientists argue that the necessary conditions for the presence of human life are so very rare that The Great Silence is simply to be expected. There is no-one else! If, then, human-like extra-terrestrials do not exist, there seem to be two possibilities. Either God intends the human race eventually to populate the galaxies over a hugely extended period of time; or, God never intended humans to develop the means of doing so. What are the implications of each of these these alternatives, and which seems more likely?

---

[This follows on some of the discussion in the thread *Why did God create such a large universe?

but takes a look at some other issues.]
Either scenario is likely and the implications and arguments are endless.

Peace…

MW

 

[Malperdy]

The existance of ET’s would have a much more serious implication than just how man’s social interaction with them would be.

It affects core Dogma, the redemption, original sin and probably everything else about our Faith. For instance if they sin and probagate through the same general method and have the same genetic transfer system, (possibly varying in method slightly ), are they also stigmatized with OS because of one initial falling out?. Is there another redemption scenerio played out for them?..

AndyF

That the existence of extra-terrestrials might upset core Dogma is presumably based on not knowing whether they would also have suffered Original Sin, and need redemption, or not. Or whether this is restricted to Earthly humans alone.

Neil_Anthony, writing in the thread Why did God create such a large universe? points to Christ’s words in John 10:16 “There are other sheep that belong to me that are not in this sheepyard…” Which might suggest there are ETs to be added to the fold.

That is why I conjectured a missionary role for humans from this Earth. Rather like going out to newly discovered humans in remote parts of our own world.

How do you suppose the existence of ETs might affect Dogma?

 

[Malperdy]

While the discovery of life outside the earth would bring some questions theologically speaking, it would not negate the core of Christianity.

The “great silence,” scientifically speaking is most probably related to the fact of BIG UNIVERSE, small earth…unless it’s pointed straight at earth a signal wouldn’t reach us. We’ve search so few stars…

Firstly, I’m very interested in what those theological questions might be.

Secondly, as far as I understand the current scientific enterprise with the search for ETs, it is believed that any civilisation which has reached our current human level of technological development is broadcasting, or otherwise providing evidence of itself, as a by-product of its everyday communications. Such weak signals can, apparently, be picked up by our advanced listening equipment even though they are not being sent directly to us, so long as some part of the signal hits on our devices. So far, though, a Great Silence!

 

[Hastrman]

Ontologically any rational animals are human, even if biologically they’re not.

It no more says anything that they haven’t contacted us than it said anything to the Aztecs that Europeans hadn’t contacted them until 1519. It’s only been two million years, three to be very generous how we define “human;” you can’t even get 1% of the distance around the galaxy in that time. At least not at light speed–but there is this thing called an Alcubierre warp drive that doesn’t violate general relativity…

Realistically, we’ve had radio for a little over a hundred years. We only assume any other races would use it to communicate–they might use any number of other media, half of which we haven’t conceived of.

 

[Malperdy]

This thread is going nowhere fast! My original post probably should have looked at one issue only instead of two. The first question was whether or not we would be obliged to take the Christian message to intelligent extra-terrestrials if any were ever discovered. The second question really hides a speculation that the issue will never arise - because, We are alone!

There are two sets of scientific discussions related to this. They involve statistical reasoning which I’m not going to elaborate on. The first discussion, to be very brief, looks at the great age of the known universe. There must be very many star systems in our own galaxy which are far, far, older than our Sun and planets, by millions of years. And, there are statistically a good proportion which would harbour conditions for life very similar to our Earth. So, the reasoning goes, there ought to be more than a few intelligent species much, much, older than our own out there. Because of their great age, it is assumed that such species ought to have developed superior interstellar transmitting and listening capability, if not actual travel over huge distances no matter the time it would take. Statistically, there ought to be some evidence of such species. But, instead there is The Great Silence.

The second discussion in the scientific community concerns the precise conditions under which paleo-biologists believe our human species came about. The statistical argument looking at all the necessary biological, chemical, and other physical conditions concludes that we are very, very, rare! There is just so much against the possibility of the human species even beginning, let alone surviving to build a technological civilisation.

The Great Silence and the biological unlikelihood of humankind both point in the direction of Earthly Humanity being the only species of its type in the universe. This notion may be given some support by the lack of mention of God’s purpose for the astronomically visible universe in Biblical or dogmatic literature. Does anyone know of any references in such literature?

 

[Yerusalyim]

Firstly, I’m very interested in what those theological questions might be.

The most important single theological question would be do we carry the message of Christ to other worlds? Was His sacrafice for humans alone, or for the whole universe…was the sin of Adam and Eve a problem just form humanity…or for ALL creation. How’s that for a few theological questions.

 

[catharina]

In a world as graced AND broken as ours, where solutions are needed around every corner, who has time for (or the right to indulge in) such speculation - even in the name of philosophy?

In the name of Jesus Christ, love God and love your neighbor.

 

[ateista]

There was a great Calvin and Hobbs cartoon, in which Hobbs says:

“The surest sign that there is other intelligence in the Universe is that they never tried to contact us!”.

Makes one think… doesn’t it?

 

[Hrvoje]

There was a great Calvin and Hobbs cartoon, in which Hobbs says:

“The surest sign that there is other intelligence in the Universe is that they never tried to contact us!”.

Makes one think… doesn’t it?

Hehehe.

 

[Malperdy]

The most important single theological question would be do we carry the message of Christ to other worlds? Was His sacrafice for humans alone, or for the whole universe…was the sin of Adam and Eve a problem just form humanity…or for ALL creation. How’s that for a few theological questions.

OK. There’s some good questions towards a theology of extra-terrestrials. Now, has anyone out there got any answers?
OR…
Can we demonstrate, on theological grounds, that we must be alone in the universe?

 

[Hastrman]

OK. There’s some good questions towards a theology of extra-terrestrials. Now, has anyone out there got any answers?
OR…
Can we demonstrate, on theological grounds, that we must be alone in the universe?

First off, as I said, any rational self-mobile life-form is a human, ontologically speaking, just as any self-mobile life form is an animal. Otherwise we couldn’t talk about “animals on other planets,” since they’re probably less similar to our animals, bio-chem wise, than viruses are.

Second, it is likely that the salvific mission of Christ pertains to all creation (viz St. Paul), at least all creation that is not aeviternal (Satan’s not saved). If aliens did not receive their own Messiah, then they are probably waiting to be told of ours.

I actually use this idea in a book–the aliens have been given a mission by a humanoid figure (cloaked in blue…) to find their Heavenly Champion, but it turns out it’s us–and they hate us for a bunch of barbarians. It’s sort of a “How odd of God to choose the Jews” thing. I based the find-your-messiah thing on several Native American mythologies that involve the idea (the Ojibwa searching for Manibozho, the Hopi waiting for the white brother, and others–possibly even the Prince Quetzalcoatl One-Reed legend of the Aztecs, since he vowed to restore the people “true worship” after he got his revenge).

 

[ManFromAltair]

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

Soon after aliens become industrialized they start having this problem with climate change on their planet. Eventually, global warming kills them. That’s the reason for the Fermi Paradox and why we don’t hear from alien civilisations. Global warming isn’t just limited to Earth, but the greenhouse effect becomes a problem on all alien worlds after they industrialize.

 

[Wesrock]

The universe is so big that there could be millions of intelligent species existing right now but none close enough to ever encounter.

It doesn’t have to be like Star Trek or Star Wars where there’s an intelligent civilization on every other planet.

Anyway, if we do encounter others, I think it would be important to evangelize them. We were directed to preach the good news to all nations, after all.

 

[ManFromAltair]

The universe is so big that there could be millions of intelligent species existing right now but none close enough to ever encounter.

It doesn’t have to be like Star Trek or Star Wars where there’s an intelligent civilization on every other planet.

Anyway, if we do encounter others, I think it would be important to evangelize them. We were directed to preach the good news to all nations, after all.

I don’t know about alien involvement in the Church. Is the sacrament of marriage between an earth-man and alien-woman permitted? What if an alien-man wants to marry an earth-woman? I wait for the Pope’s decision on the matter.

 

[ericc]

1. If extra-terrestrial beings with human-like souls exist in the vast universe, would we be obliged to visit or communicate with them as missionaries for Christ?

If they are not a fallen race, they don;t need saving. And if they are a fallen race but not being Adam/Eve stock, there is nothing you can do to save them. How do you save a different species? Their relationship to God may be different from ours. And their method of salvation may be different from ours, their fallenness may be different. Salvation by the cross may not be suitable because the theology on salvation may be entirely different. You need a perfect sinless man to redeem us. But for them you probably require a perfect ET, whatever that is. Lastly, we are made in the image of God. I don’t know any ET that would fit that category. Some how you are able to determine that ET has human-like souls. Assuming that they are of a superior being, then I suppose we can contrast the difference between us and them and us vs chimpanzees and chimpanzees telling us we need saving.

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

The probability resources for life is practically zero for a world that is 13 billion years old. We were given life supernaturally. While not knowing whether God created other life elsewhere, even granting those who were created early in the creation, they still need to go through the same process of waiting for their planets to cool down sufficiently for life to be possible. And assuming that they became a technologically superior being, they would not be looking for us because we haven’t existed yet since they came early. And by the time we come around, their sun may have gone nova and they may no longer exist. Based upon existing knowledge, traveling to other stars is at best a sci-fi novel or perhaps their life spans are different from ours. Still laws of nature applies to them, distances between stars are just too great for single lifetime to overcome and assuming that they are able to travel at light speeds.

1. Some scientists argue that the necessary conditions for the presence of human life are so very rare that The Great Silence is simply to be expected. There is no-one else! If, then, human-like extra-terrestrials do not exist, there seem to be two possibilities. Either God intends the human race eventually to populate the galaxies over a hugely extended period of time; or, God never intended humans to develop the means of doing so. What are the implications of each of these these alternatives, and which seems more likely?

We are alone. The scriptures do not hint that we are going space traveling, going bravely where none has gone before.

 

[openmind77]

1. If extra-terrestrial beings with human-like souls exist in the vast universe, would we be obliged to visit or communicate with them as missionaries for Christ?

Some scientists speak of The Great Silence (e.g. Fermi’s paradox), and wonder why there is no evidence of extra-terrestrials in the form of electronic or other transmissions from distant planets which can be picked up on Earth. (’ Are we alone?’ and similar conjectures.) The argument is that the universe is now old enough for several ’ civilisations’ to have developed just within our local galaxy.

1. Some scientists argue that the necessary conditions for the presence of human life are so very rare that The Great Silence is simply to be expected. There is no-one else! If, then, human-like extra-terrestrials do not exist, there seem to be two possibilities. Either God intends the human race eventually to populate the galaxies over a hugely extended period of time; or, God never intended humans to develop the means of doing so. What are the implications of each of these these alternatives, and which seems more likely?

---

[This follows on some of the discussion in the thread *Why did God create such a large universe?

but takes a look at some other issues.]

There are a 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. Of course, there are bound to be intelligent beings like us on some of them.

The reason for the ‘Great Silence’ - those who are less developed than humans, do not have the means to communicate with us. Those who are more developed do not want to communicate openly with us because that would interfere with our natural evolution - they would much rather observe us silently or from afar (like anthropologists).

It would not be useful to visit these advanced ETs as missionaries because they probably understand the nature of God and the Universe better than we do. As for those less advanced than us - they probably would prefer to be visited by the advanced ones, rather than by us.

 

[ericc]

There are a 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. Of course, there are bound to be intelligent beings like us on some of them.

.

There is no “of course”. You haven’t provide any evidence yet. You presumed.