The Holocaust that they couldn't hide. The Horrors of Ukrainian Famine 1932–1933.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Athanasiy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Athanasiy

Guest
Dr. Schiller, the agricultural attache of the German Embassy, put the number of famine victims at 6 million people, according to a letter dated July 13, 1933, from the Italian Ambassador in Moscow to his Minister of Foreign Affairs.
James Mace says that 7.5 million Ukrainians were killed by man-made famine.
Some historian say that up to 8-million people were killed by famine.
Unauthorized estimates of the number of people who have died, either directly or indirectly, from malnutrition vary up to as much as the fantastic figure of 10,000,000".
 
This kind of thing is just so gross. I know that one of the reasons my maternal grandmothers family left Russia in 1918 was due to famine and oppression. Millions died because of this and people had even gone so far as to eat saw dust as their only source of food. How supposed leaders can conceive of such horror is beyond me.

We don’t need to think that can’t or won’t happen here. Corporate farms are actually the fastest way to accomplish this. This is why I encourage people everywhere to plant their own gardens and save the seeds. We have become over-reliant on large corporations to handle most of our needs and a little independence could go a long way toward survival.
 
We don’t need to think that can’t or won’t happen here. Corporate farms are actually the fastest way to accomplish this. This is why I encourage people everywhere to plant their own gardens and save the seeds. We have become over-reliant on large corporations to handle most of our needs and a little independence could go a long way toward survival.
Click to expand...
It was big communist government, not corporations that lead to the Ukraine massacre.
 
Cricket2, the horrors of deliberate man-man famine were only possible by the misanthropic virus of Bolshevism, under the rule of the meanest degenerates.
It could never ever be possible for example in todays EU.
And by the way it is important, for the history of past experiments of chronic disregard for human units , disrespect to private property , teach us today how to act for the future. Which systems we should wary and what systems we should abut.
Yes, in EU the peasant will not be able to sell its product, I mean that ‘‘every peasant’’ , will be unable to sell its product but the farmers shall prosper. ( Unless of course will have equal rights for all and not only for clan-oligarchic groups )

Look, I found out some information regarding EU policy to farming.
On the contrary, the people’s capitalism of EU is the prosperity for small farmers rather than the decline of small farming.

The beginning of the article :
“A reform of EU farm subsidies agreed this week will favour young farmers and smallholders over big business”
eubusiness.com/news-eu/agriculture-farm.phk

here are more links to the argumentative articles to the subject:

euractiv.com/cap/eu-farm-subsidies-rise-despite-d-news-530555

france24.com/en/20130209-europe-budget-agriculture-subsidies-austerity-france-economy

eubusiness.com/news-eu/agriculture-farm.phk
 
Athanasiy said:
Cricket2, the horrors of deliberate man-man famine were only possible by the misanthropic virus of Bolshevism, under the rule of the meanest degenerates.
It could never ever be possible for example in todays EU.
And by the way it is important, for the history of past experiments of chronic disregard for human units , disrespect to private property , teach us today how to act for the future. Which systems we should wary and what systems we should abut.
Yes, in EU the peasant will not be able to sell its product, I mean that ‘‘every peasant’’ , will be unable to sell its product but the farmers shall prosper. ( Unless of course will have equal rights for all and not only for clan-oligarchic groups )

Look, I found out some information regarding EU policy to farming.
On the contrary, the people’s capitalism of EU is the prosperity for small farmers rather than the decline of small farming.

The beginning of the article :
“A reform of EU farm subsidies agreed this week will favour young farmers and smallholders over big business”
eubusiness.com/news-eu/agriculture-farm.phk

here are more links to the argumentative articles to the subject:

euractiv.com/cap/eu-farm-subsidies-rise-despite-d-news-530555

france24.com/en/20130209-europe-budget-agriculture-subsidies-austerity-france-economy

eubusiness.com/news-eu/agriculture-farm.phk
Click to expand...
I was not referring to EU farms. In 1980-81 there was a deliberate, and well orchestrated effort on the part of US leaders to eliminate the small farmer. Simply explained the plan went like this: Low interest rates on loans for large farm equipment were approved. The idea was to allow small farmers to take out loans on large pieces of equipment so they could “increase” the size of their farms and crop yields and thus improve their financial status. Once this was done a given number of years where allowed to pass and then the interest rates or allowed to balloon to such a rate that the farmers could not possibly pay them off.

The plan worked. (And this was directly from the mouth of a congressman who spoke at a meeting I attended in which now Cardinal Francis Stafford was in attendance.) Small farmers had to sell of or auction off their farms to corporate farms, the only ones that could afford to buy them. Prices have increased ever since, and quality has gone down.

So regardless of what anyone may want to believe, there can be another famine in this world started at the hands of those who own the land and have to power to carry out such a plan. It is foolish to think it can never happen again, because it can and it will.
 
Ok, lets turn it in this way , that according to the history of past socio-political experiments, we don’t need to think that can’t or won’t happen again, especially in the societies which have been dominated by chronic disrespect/disregards for human beings and chronic disrespect to private property / middle class… The oligarchic clan-world of large corporate farms(motivated solely on making money) are actually the fastest way to accomplish this.
Honestly, I do not believe that this is possible in western society.
But in an authoritarian society, where the ruling elite alien to the interests of the people, where the interests of society - is every thing, but the man himself, the human being is ‘‘nothing’’, in such a society, anything can happen.
That is why the tragedy of famine is a history lesson and a warning for the future.
But on the basis of the past, can be the warning of the possible forms of society that can lead to such tragedies in the future.
 
Cricket2 said:
This kind of thing is just so gross. I know that one of the reasons my maternal grandmothers family left Russia in 1918 was due to famine and oppression. Millions died because of this and people had even gone so far as to eat saw dust as their only source of food. How supposed leaders can conceive of such horror is beyond me.

We don’t need to think that can’t or won’t happen here. Corporate farms are actually the fastest way to accomplish this. This is why I encourage people everywhere to plant their own gardens and save the seeds. We have become over-reliant on large corporations to handle most of our needs and a little independence could go a long way toward survival.
Click to expand...
You don’t have many friends or family who are farmers, do you?
Corporate farms, except for poultry and pork (and to some extent finishing cattle), are largely a myth. Oh, for sure most farms are corporations, but they are almost always family owned. And yes most family farms are much bigger today than a generation or two ago, and that is distressing. But it does not mean that all of modern day agriculture is even.
And to bring it up as a comparison to the 30s Ukrainian genocide is really beyond the pale. No way should today’s farmers be compared to the communists of that error. It is not only absurd, it is borderline calumnious.
 
Communist leader speaking in the Kharkiv region in 1934:

“Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR, and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence.”
  • V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn. 2. Moscow 2004. P. 572
 
The beauty and the horror(:eek:), is that History REPEATS itself!.

Can a widespread famine happen here in the United States?. I believe it can.

Just look at all the “advancements” giant seed companies are gaining in GMO seeds and plants. You would be hard pressed to convince me that science can do a better job at producing seed crops then God.

There is a lot of chatter in my part of the country about local and or state governments in other states restricting or outright outlawing private vegetable gardens. Some of the chatter is saying that a tax might/could be imposed on private gardens.

My husband and I have been home gardeners for years. We practice crop rotation, we allow part of our garden to “rest” for a growing season and use natural organic (chicken/rabbit poo) fertilizer on our soil at the appropriate times, but yet, for the third year in a row, we have been producing plants with great bloom but NO vegetables. And yes, we always use fresh seeds, but I wonder if these seeds have been modified in some way.

In our “INSTANT SOCIETY”, “INSTANT INFORMATION” INSTANT EVERYTHING, we might be missing the gradual, slow progression to disaster.

This is not a Republican v/ Democrat or Catholic v/ Protestant conflict, this is a potential global disaster which could effect EVERYONE. Control the food and you control the people, sometimes, to their death.
 
Athanasiy said:
Dr. Schiller, the agricultural attache of the German Embassy, put the number of famine victims at 6 million people, according to a letter dated July 13, 1933, from the Italian Ambassador in Moscow to his Minister of Foreign Affairs.
James Mace says that 7.5 million Ukrainians were killed by man-made famine.
Some historian say that up to 8-million people were killed by famine.
Unauthorized estimates of the number of people who have died, either directly or indirectly, from malnutrition vary up to as much as the fantastic figure of 10,000,000".
Click to expand...
There is debate about the actual numbers of dead, ranging from six million to ten million, but there is no debate regarding the cold, calculating, and horrific ways in which these victims perished.
 
MaryandJoseph

It is good when goverment allows people ( each citizen ) to own land.
In large countries, why not allow each citizen own for example - 1 hectare of land ?
with a right to till it and grow the vegetables for his own family.
the work in the field is often a good mood, good health, and also there is a result. ( if you are not lazy of course)
 
Eighty years after millions of people in Ukraine died in a famine kept secret by the Kremlin, the catastrophe that has come to be called the Holodomor is gaining recognition in the Capital Region.

Between 1932 and 1933, the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin forced a communist policy of collectivization of agriculture in Ukraine along with a drive to subdue a potential drive for independence as a country. The result was widespread starvation.

“During this time period, Stalin made sure the news didn’t get out,” said Dr. Andrij Baran of Saratoga, chairman of the Committee to Commemorate the Ukrainian Famine Genocide. “Major news outlets were based in Moscow, and borders (to Ukraine) were sealed.”

Ukraine’s proclamation of independence on Aug. 24, 1991 followed the breakup that year of the USSR.

“When the Soviet Union fell, documents were accessed that proved this happened,” Baran said.

The local committee, which was formed in April this year, is focused on increasing awareness about the genocide. Organizers have designated this week as the time to commemorate the Holodomor and educate people about it.

The observance culminates on Saturday with a commemoration at the Empire State Plaza followed by a procession to a requiem service at the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception.

“Several dignitaries will be there. There will be speeches read, and choirs are going to sing solemn songs,” said Baran.

Baran, who was born in New York City and has been a cardiologist for 30 years, has been active in the Ukrainian-American community in the Capital Region for a long time. He is also president of the regional branch of the Ukrainian Congress Committee, a national organization that considers itself the largest representation of Ukrainian Americans who now number nearly one million.

This isn’t the first time the Holodomor has been commemorated in the United States.

“For the 75th anniversary, a torch was carried across the world, similar to the Olympics,” said Baran, whose parents left Ukraine unscathed by the tragedy and came to New York in the 1940s.

“My parents came here from western Ukraine, which was under Polish control,” he said.

Michael Korhun of Watervliet survived the famine.

“By the spring of 1933,” he recalled, “I saw neither dogs nor cats in our village, they were all eaten up by our people that winter, but not just their pets but their children, even the dead were dug up from the cemeteries and eaten.”

“Our hope is to raise awareness in the American public,” said Baran. “We also want teaching about the Holodomor to become part of the curriculum in schools in New York state.”

New York is home to some 160,000 Ukrainian Americans, and Ukrainians first emigrated to the Capital Region in the 1800s, and three churches — Sts. Peter and Paul in Cohoes. St. Nicholas in Troy and St. Nicholas in Watervliet — with roots in that community have all celebrated their centennials.

the source: timesunion.com/local/article/Stalin-starved-Ukraine-in-terror-4945138.php#src=fb
 
This thread has been dormant for a considerable period. With rare exceptions, reviving threads after a protracted period of inactivity is discouraged because:
  • the issues that spurred them are often no longer “hot” or current topics, explaining why thread activity ceased originally.
  • posters originally involved in the discussion are sometimes no longer active on the forum and, therefore, unavailable to reply to comments added to the thread.
Our experience suggests that, when a topic merits revival, it is best accomplished by initiating a new thread that draws on recent events and can be posted to contemporaneously. This eliminates the baggage of folks being frustrated by asking and not receiving responses to issues raised in early posts (because the new poster didn’t notice that the post he was responding to was made a long time ago).

Posters are very welcome to open a new thread on the subject or any other topic, as well as to actively participate in the myriad active threads in the fora.
**
Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed. **
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top