The Implication of "Religious Experiences" re: Salvation

[Alterum]

I don’t know quite where to put this thread. This observation probably springs from an unnatural concern and inability to understand God’s omniscience on my part. Nevertheless, after reading writings by numerous saints where it is indicated that the vast majority of people go to hell (like this: olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml), I find it quite disturbing that I haven’t had any so-called “religious experiences” (those supernatural experiences that come from God). Why? Because if there’s one thing it seems like the saints have in common, it’s that they all seem in some sort of special communion with God, where they have visions or perform miracles in His name, or are the recipients of miracles, etc. My only assumption is that they’re simply so close to God (or Mary) that this sort of one-on-one relationship develops, and they essentially experience the spiritual world in a way that I, so attached to the material world, cannot. Moreover, some of you have had religious experiences that seem to be directly from God as well. But most people don’t. I don’t think it’s just a mere correlation that most people go to hell. The people who we know are in heaven all seem to have had this closer communion with God which manifests itself via visions or miracles. Some people here, also probably close to God, have experienced the same things (although not at the quality of the saints). Granted, the closer someone is to God, the more “in touch” he is with the spiritual world; however, it seems like the people who are closest are the ones through which the spiritual world actually manifests itself by way of something supernatural.

So, if I’m to take those saints seriously who claim that the VAST majority of people go to hell, it seems like there’s one very clear and very common thread among those people who go to heaven: They have supernatural religious experiences which express their close communion with God. Should we all be able to attain the level of communion where we have religious experiences? It seems like that’s what happens to all the saints! Worse, what are the implications for all of us who don’t have religious experiences, especially regarding our eternal salvation?

I’m also having a bit of a problem getting my mind around how God knows whether or not we will achieve salvation, but how we still have free will on earth. If God knows that I’m either destined for hell or for heaven, might the manner of our (that is, God and my) interaction change? Might He choose not to grant me those religious experiences if He knows I’ve rejected Him “already” (assuming I’m destined for hell - which I’d rather not assume!).

Is it appropriate to pray that God help me to become a saint?

Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks!

 

[Didi]

Alterum:

Is it appropriate to pray that God help me to become a saint?

YES!!

God calls us all to be saints. Problem is we sometimes look at the saints as perfect people, which they were not. No mere human has been or ever will be perfect. The saints struggled just as we do. Have you read about many saints having a “dark night of the soul” where they felt dry and unemotional when praying? They often felt very far away from God. Sometimes this lasted for years.

I think we get in trouble when we try to put too much emphasis on emotions with our faith, or look for the spectacular.

As far as having a “religious experience,” if you are Catholic, we have this experience at every Holy Mass where the bread and wine become Jesus’ true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity!

Maybe you could try reading more about the Holy Mass – Catholic Answers has great books on this.

Do you ever spend time with Our Lord in Eucharistic Adoration? When you do so, you are truly in His presence, whether you “feel” anything or not. I find that during these times of prayer, I sometimes come to a new understanding of a Church teaching, or find a solution to a problem, or simply lay my burdens at His feet and trust in Him.

Sometimes, too, I think we look for the extraordinary instead of the ordinary ways God works in our lives.

Have you ever “just missed” an accident? He sends our guardian angels to protect us!

Have you ever “happened to run into” and old friend who needed some help or who was able to help you? Some meetings are Providential!

Have you ever awoken in the middle of the night thinking of a friend or family member who’s going through a difficult time? Maybe God is calling you to pray for them.

He works in the everyday details of our lives. Look for Him there!

God bless you!

 

[asquared]

I too have never had and emotionally charged “experience of God” or private revelation, beyond a very calm, unexciting knowledge that a word from scripture is speaking to me at certain times and situations, and once a conviction of God’s love, a momentary assurance that was intellectual rather than emotional.

God speaks to me ordinarily as he does to most people, in the scripture, daily lectionary readings, homilies, teaching of good priests & popes & Catholic writers, Mass prayers etc. I take comfort from Mother Teresa who said she once as a young nun had the spiritual experience of a strong impression of a command from Jesus to embark on the path she did in her life and vocation, but after that one experience never again had the consolation of feeling that closeness, that direct word from him again. It was enough to feed her and direct her for her whole life, to get her through the difficulties of her work and mission, and attacks from the devil, to do what she was commanded to do. She did not have as an ordinary part of her prayer life those intense mystical experiences Teresa of Avila and other saints write about.

 

[padraig]

I believe its a mistake to equate spiritual life/growth/ development with emotional spiritual ‘highs’. It was Jesus Himself who said, 'Blessed are you Thomas for having seen, you believe. But even more blessed are those who not having seen yet believe!"

I suspect you might proftit from reading some of the writings of the lady who is mentioned here:

centeringprayer.com/OpenHeart/open01.htm

And I quote:
I am convinced that it is a mistake to identify the experience of contemplative prayer with contemplative prayer itself, which transcends any impression of God’s radiating or inflowing presence. I was pleased to see my experience articulated by Ruth Burroughs, a Carmelite nun who has lived her religious life without any experiential awareness of the radiance of God’s presence. In Guidelines to Mystical Prayer, she proposes the distinction of lights on mysticism and lights off mysticism. This would explain how, for many persons, their whole contemplative journey is completely hidden from them until their final transformation. This Carmelite nun had two friends, one with a very exuberant mystical life, in an active order and the other a nun in her own cloistered convent who had never enjoyed any conscious experience of contemplative prayer although she had faithfully practiced the discipline of contemplative prayer for forty years. Both wound up in transforming union. Ruth Burroughs extrapolates that mystical grace may be a charism that certain mystics are given in order to explain the spiritual path to others. In any case, her hypothesis rests on the assumption that the essence of mysticism is the path of pure faith. Pure faith, according to John of the Cross, is a ray of darkness to the soul. There is no faculty that can perceive it. One can be having this “experience” on the deepest level beyond the power of any faculty to perceive it. One can only remark its presence by its fruits in one’s life. God can be beaming that ray of darkness into someone who is faithful to prayer without his or her being conscious of it at all.

Her name is Ruth Burroughs and she is a Carmelite Prioress in England. She suggests that souls may walk in two paths those of ‘light’ with great spiritual/mystical experiences and those of ‘darkness’ apparetly walking the way of simple faith. She suggests that neither path is necessarily better, but we each of us have eithr path to tread.

At the end of the day we must all walk the road that Jesus walked and that road leads up the hill to Calvary.