The Keys To The Kingdom Of Heaven...

[2ndGen]

Hi

I like this interpretition; to whom does it belong originally?

This would be then according to :
1 Corinthians 10 DR
4 And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)

Thanks

That’s calling Jesus a “spiritual” rock.

That’s different from what Peter was referred to.

Jesus was called the rock because he would be the foundation of the “physical” Church (along with the work of the other Apostles and with The Prophets).

When Paul and Jesus are compared by verse, Jesus’ words always truimph Paul’s words. Always. And we know that Jesus Himself was the One Who called Simon “Rock”.

So if Jesus says that Simon is the Rock…so be it.

I’m a Papist, not a Paulist and Papist follow Christ first, then whoever Christ sent. But Christ words (in matters of confusion) always come first and foremost.

Therefore, for universal Christians not belonging to any churches founded on men, Peter is The Rock because Jesus said so.

 

[2ndGen]

Hi

A letter written by Ignatius to Christians in Smyrna [1] **around 106 **is the earliest surviving witness to the use of the term “Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic#History_of_usage

According to wikipedia, the Catholic Church was founded and named as such around 106; how would you reconcile it , please?

Thanks

Well, that’s the first time it was referred to as the “universal” Church as a title, but before that, did it “not” exist?

Let’s view some historical documents that existed before The Holy Bible itself…

The Didache.

ivanlewis.com/Didache/didache.html

These are The Teachings of The 12 Apostles.

What Church today has been practicing those religious practices since the 50’s AD? Only The Catholic Church has been practicing what this document states are taught by The 12 Apostles (whom Jesus authorized & commissioned to teach His followers).

So, if we want to be “literal” about it and say that because the term “The Catholic Church” didn’t exist since the time of The Apostles because the earliest reference to it literally wasn’t found until you say 106AD (I actually had 110AD, but I won’t argue with you );

Then, as a counterproof, you’d have to prove (as the burden of proof is always on the accuser) that somewhere before 106AD it is stated that the term The Catholic Church is “not” the name of Jesus’ Church
(it really wouldn’t be unreasonable for Jesus’ Church to be called “Catholic” as it was always meant to be a “universal” which is what "catholic’/“katolicos” in Greek actually means] community of believers without regards to race, ethnicty, nationality or backround).

Not only does the term “catholic” conform with Jesus’ teachings that He came for all man and that He commissioned the Apostles to make Disciples of all nations (all also means “universal” literally), but, it conforms with what The Apostles actually did when they traveled and evangelized to the entire world (and didn’t limit themselves to places like England or Germany or Greece or to the Southern United States or to, oh well, you should get the message by now! )

 

[Lev23]

I’m a Papist, not a Paulist and Papist follow Christ first, then whoever Christ sent. But Christ words (in matters of confusion) always come first and foremost.

Again, you are posting utter confusion. What is a “Paulist”? For your information, here is what St.Paul wrote of an incident concerning St.Peter.

Then ask yourself----who brought who back to Jesus’ words?

**Galatians 2:11-21/3:1
When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

"We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

“If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.**

 

[2ndGen]

There is the official definition of a Paulist (a Catholic Priest order), then there’s the slang usage of the word to describe Christians who emphasize Paul’s teachings as superior to Petrine teachings.

I guess, we all can tell which group you fall into by the passage you chose to employ.

 

[Lev23]

There is the official definition of a Paulist (a Catholic Priest order), then there’s the slang usage of the word to describe Christians who emphasize Paul’s teachings as superior to Petrine teachings.

I guess, we all can tell which group you fall into by the passage you chose to employ.

But wait, you never answered my question. St.Paul said St.Peter and others were “led astray”. If St.Paul never of corrected St.Peter by how he was demonstrating his faith in front of the gentile believers when the Jews from James joined them, what would of happened to St.Peter? What if nobody ever corrected this behavior when both Jew and gentiles showed up to fellowship together. Go on, read Galatians!

Yes, I realize that you see Galatians was written by St.Paul who was under the Papist authority of St.Peter. But by St.Pauls account, there was a serious problem going on. A serious problem that opposed the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[2ndGen]

Then ask yourself----who brought who back to Jesus’ words?

Oh, I thought you were asking rhetorically since we were discussing what a Paulist was.

But to answer your question, who brought who back to Jesus’ words is another discussion.

Besides, when you said “ask yourself” I guess I took that too literally in that I was to answer myself.

 

[Alexius]

Which Church Fathers believed that Peter’s confession was The Rock that Jesus gave the Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to?

Remember, the Rock that Jesus was addressing was also given the Keys.

So would this mean that the keys were given to “words”?



Also, do you have any scriptural support for all the Apostles were given equal authority and if so, why was only one chosen to succeed Jesus as the shephard of His flock?

Unfortunately, this has been touched on at great length, but the thread is gone. I will look for a similar thread so we don’t need to do this all over again. I would say that the Fathers spoke more so on Rock meaning the faith of Peter, but many believed it to mena Peter AND his faith…

Prayers and Petitions,
Alexius

 

[2ndGen]

Unfortunately, this has been touched on at great length, but the thread is gone. I will look for a similar thread so we don’t need to do this all over again. I would say that the Fathers spoke more so on Rock meaning the faith of Peter, but many believed it to mena Peter AND his faith…

Prayers and Petitions,
Alexius

Protestants want to use the fact that there was debate of doctrines as a way to discredit The Church while completely ignoring that The Apostles debated doctrines and beliefs as well.

The difference between us and them is that we discuss and decide and move on. Their churches discuss, disagree, and form new churches. We have doctrines older than their entire religion.

And they always ignore that in the end,
the matter was resolved and a decision was made,
and a doctrine conceived.