The Magdalene Sisters

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Philologus

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The university I work at is showing the film about the Magdalene Sisters called “Sex In A Cold Climate”. Here is a description of the film":

*This historical documentary is a deeply disturbing portrait of Magdalene Asylums run by Catholic nuns in Ireland. For over a hundred years girls and young women were sent to live and work in the Magdalene Asylums’ Laundries after they’d had sexual or ‘sinful’ contact with men. Of the 30,000 women who were imprisoned in them, many never got out. The last one didn’t close until 1996. The video features interviews with several women detained in Magdalene Asylums between the 1940s and the 1960s. The purpose of the Asylums—named after the repentant biblical prostitute Mary Magdalene—was to correct the supposed sexual deviance of young women. Getting pregnant out of wedlock and having an illegitimate baby, like Christina Mulcahy, made you an obvious candidate. But the criteria of deviance was so vague and wide ranging that some Magdalenes didn’t know why they had been put away. Phyllis Valentine was sent there because she was considered “too pretty” and therefore a moral danger to herself and others. Martha Cooney was put away after she complained that a cousin had sexually molested her. The Asylums were often run by abusive and even sadistic nuns. All the women featured eventually escaped, but the emotional and physical strain these Magdalenes had to endure led to damaged lives. *
Directed by Steve Humphries
*1998, color and B&W, 50 mins., VHS *

This is a rather disturbing part of Catholic history. Does anyone know if there is truth to what this and another movie called “The Magdalene Sisters”?

If there is what has been the official response from Rome on these movies and how do you answer persons who view these and it further infuriates them against Church abuses that have gone on for centuries?

I am not trying to be antagonistice here but truly wanting some answers.

Philologus
 
My understanding is that many of these abuses did occurr. The Magdelene laundries were only the tip of the iceberg of what happened in Ireland. Some of the more horriffic abuses, including murder, happened to children who were placed in the industrial schools such as Letterfrack. I have a friend who is in frequent communication with a gentleman who survived one of these schools, and who has spent much of his life seeking justice and accountablity for what he and many other innocent children endured. I will try to post some links about it for you.

As to the question of how to answer those who see this as further reason to criticize the Catholic church–I don’t know personally how to answer that. It is a question that certainly haunts (actually, torments might be a better word) me, because I don’t know myself how I can come to terms with the Church’s role in allowing these abuses to go on and then covering them up. Evil acts–especially when inflicted upon children–should be called what they are.

Many Christians are vocal about abortion but very silent about the ongoing horrors of child abuse and exploitation–not just within the church but in general. Why is that, I have often wondered, when Jesus himself is so very very clear about this gravest of sins.
 
This has some links that can get you started.

paddydoyle.com/

I glanced at the article (but did not read thoroughly) saying the movie Magdalene Sisters was anti-Catholic propoganda. I’m always puzzled by these types of claims. The people who do the most damage to the Catholic Church are those within it who perform gravely sinful acts and fail to “take responsibility” (to use modern secular terminology) for these acts. By your fruits shall you know them indeed.
 
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whitecoffee:
As to the question of how to answer those who see this as further reason to criticize the Catholic church–I don’t know personally how to answer that. It is a question that certainly haunts (actually, torments might be a better word) me, because I don’t know myself how I can come to terms with the Church’s role in allowing these abuses to go on and then covering them up. Evil acts–especially when inflicted upon children–should be called what they are.
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As some of you know, I work for a man that is extremely anti-Catholic and we get into some pretty heated discussions at work. He and his wife saw the Magdelene Sisters. He came into work the next day and described this movie in great detail to me, with a smirk on his face.
**
The sad thing is that it some of this abuse really did occur. *Hopefully, it was only a small number of nuns that did these horrible things described in the movie. :o :o *

*A few months ago, he rented the DaVinci Code and of course just had to tell me all about it, also in great detail, and with that same smirk on his face. :o :o *

*Why do some people grasp at anything they can that is derogatory and hateful about the Catholic Faith and refuse understand that the Catholics are human and we sin, but the Catholic Church is still the one that was started by Christ? :hmmm: :hmmm: *
**
Shannon
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Because the devil is real, and works through people to get us off track and distracted. Are you upset? Yes! Then the devil had succeeded! Those type of people need to be ignored and the devil automatically gets rebuked.
 
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whitecoffee:
This has some links that can get you started.

paddydoyle.com/
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On this site :

“There are many people who believed that because a child was put into the care of a religious order, priests, brothers or nuns that he or she was safe and that they would be “taken care of”. The truth was very different.”

He is not very honest :mad: The majority of priests, brothers and nuns are good people.
 
Sarah Jane:
On this site :

“There are many people who believed that because a child was put into the care of a religious order, priests, brothers or nuns that he or she was safe and that they would be “taken care of”. The truth was very different.”

He is not very honest :mad: The majority of priests, brothers and nuns are good people.
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Sarah Jane, I think you have misinterpreted the statement you quoted and read words and ideas into it that are simply not there. Read it again. He is not saying anything about what percentage of priests, brothers,and nuns are good people. He is merely pointing out that believing that a child is safe in the care of priests, brothers, and nuns turned out, in many instances, to be a tragically misplaced belief. He is talking about a tragic breach of trust.

I personally believe most priests, nuns, and brothers are good people also, but this fact does not in any way negate the actions of those who are not and the immense human suffering caused by them.

To preempt any possible misunderstanding, I would like to state clearly that I posted the link for informational purposes–it provides an excellent, detailed, and well-informed overview of the ongoing story about clerical child abuse in Ireland. The fact that I posted it does not mean I agree with everything on the site, or personally share all Paddy Doyle’s views.
 
First, let me stress that I am not a Michael Rose fan, far from it. But here is a link to the article he wrote. It sums things up pretty well.

Rose link

John
 
…]

Watching The Magdalene Sisters is hard. It is hard because there is so much inhumanity to look at. It is hard because much of the inhumanity takes place at the hands of those who are followers of Christ. It is hard because we know that it is true.

…]
Over the years, it is estimated that 30,000 women were sent to such places in Ireland. The last of the Magdalene Laundries closed in 1996.

The idea behind such a system was that women who did not fit society’s ideal of women needed to be taken away to protect society from their wantonness, and given the opportunity to repent and to spend their lives working off the sin (or supposed sin) that led to their committal.

But in actuality, they were in essence imprisoned – for life, unless their families came to reclaim them. They were forced to work without pay at hard labor. They were subject to beatings and emotional cruelty. They could well grow old and die inside the wall of the convent that they had not chosen for their life.

There is no doubt that writer-director Peter Mullan is indicting the Irish Roman Catholic Church for the crime that was done to these women. There is no priest or nun in the film that is in the least bit sympathetic. All are monsters.

No doubt, the Church does indeed bear a good deal of the weight of the sin of what happened in all the years this system abused women – whether sinful or not. But Mullan’s focus on the Church leaves out many others who share in the shame and the blame – the families that abandoned their daughters to such treatment, the society that sought to be free from “sinful” women, those who used the cheap labor for their own profit.

Henri Nouwen once wrote about the story of the Prodigal Son, that it is difficult to stop being the prodigal without becoming the judgmental elder brother. That is, when we do not recognize ourselves as sinners, we fail to see others as worthy of God’s love. In The Magdalene Sisters it is certainly true of the nuns and the church in general. They treat the women in their care with contempt, arrogance and self-righteousness.

**I think that Peter Mullan has also fallen prey to the mindset of the elder brother. His treatment of the Church is just as full of contempt and arrogance. There are sins that need to be acknowledged and repentance to be done, but his broad condemnation of the Church as a whole is very like the way the nuns treated their charges. Both the nuns and Mullan treat the sinful and the innocent with the same assumption that they are vile and sinful.
**
To be sure, the Catholic Church is an easy target these days. The scandals of pedophile priests are in the headlines. Last year the film El Crimen de Padre Amaro showed a fallen priesthood. The Magdalene Sisters also carries an anti-Catholic bias. It is important to bring to view the failings of the church so that corrections and repentance can take place when needed. **It is also important to note that even the Church is a sinful institution in need of and reliant on God’s grace. To condemn without an understanding of that need for grace or without an understanding that the sin does not define the Church is as prideful and self-righteous as all elder brothers. **
Source : hollywoodjesus.com/Magdalene_Sisters.htm
 
I would like to thank everyone who responded and also those who posted links for further study.

It is shameful that the Church has had such incidents within it’s history. The recent scandals of pedophilia are just another example of abuses within the system. The big question though is why are the abusers not being held accountable by the Magesterium? If we are to put our total trust and confidence in the administration of the Church then how can the administration allow these injustices to go on unanswered and basically try to sweep them under the carpet? Is this God’s justice administered through His body?

Philologus
 
I don’t know. I was born and reared in Ireland. Lived there until I left in 1972 to come to Trinidad. I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy. I never heard of the Magdalene Laundries until this movie was publicized, and never heard of any scandal associated with such places.

While I do not deny that there may, indeed, have been some nuns who mistreated young women there, I am certain that the vast majority of the nuns were ordinary people, like you and me, neither totally good, nor very bad.

I am certain that what is portrayed in the movie - which I have not seen, only read about, and do not intend to see - is a gross exaggeration of anything that happened.
 
Joan M:
I am certain that what is portrayed in the movie - which I have not seen, only read about, and do not intend to see - is a gross exaggeration of anything that happened.
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Joan, I am happy to hear you had a positive experience with the Sisters of Mercy. Although I was not taught by Mercy sisters, I am a great admirer of Catherine McCauley, having studied her life, and am aware of so much of the good work the Mercy sisters have done not only here in Dublin but all over the world.

I must admit I am astonished, however, by what appears to be your blanket dismissal of the claims made by those who survived the Magdalene Laundries-- am unclear about your reasoning. Are you saying that because you personally did not witness or experience such suffering in these places, that it flat out did not happen to other people? Do you extend this reasoning to all claims of suffering that you have not personally witnessed? (such as claims of torture by victims of religious and political persecution, for example). Or do you put the sufferings of children from the Magdelene Laundries in a special category as, for some reason, “less believable” than other stories of human suffering? If so, why do you do this? Are the claims of adults who witnessed boys murdered at Letterfrack equally, in your eyes, non-credible? Why?

Do you doubt that such human depravity exists in general–or do you just doubt that it existed here in Ireland?

Trying to understand where you are coming from.
 
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whitecoffee:
I must admit I am astonished, however, by what appears to be your blanket dismissal of the claims made by those who survived the Magdalene Laundries-- am unclear about your reasoning. Are you saying that because you personally did not witness or experience such suffering in these places, that it flat out did not happen to other people? Do you extend this reasoning to all claims of suffering that you have not personally witnessed? (such as claims of torture by victims of religious and political persecution, for example). Or do you put the sufferings of children from the Magdelene Laundries in a special category as, for some reason, “less believable” than other stories of human suffering? If so, why do you do this? Are the claims of adults who witnessed boys murdered at Letterfrack equally, in your eyes, non-credible? Why?

Do you doubt that such human depravity exists in general–or do you just doubt that it existed here in Ireland?

Trying to understand where you are coming from.
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What I wrote is not a “blanket dismissal”. What I am saying is that, to me, it is astonishing that this was not in the public eye at all. As I said, I never heard of any of these claims. You would think that there would have been some publicity in Ireland at the time. Perhaps I am a sceptic when something that happened in my country is grabbed on by people in the U.S. and used to blacken the name of nuns that, in the main, are good holy people. Movie makers and media in America are, from my experience of them, mostly anti-Catholic and not to be believed. If that offends you, I am sorry.
 
Joan M:
What I wrote is not a “blanket dismissal”. What I am saying is that, to me, it is astonishing that this was not in the public eye at all. As I said, I never heard of any of these claims. You would think that there would have been some publicity in Ireland at the time. Perhaps I am a sceptic when something that happened in my country is grabbed on by people in the U.S. and used to blacken the name of nuns that, in the main, are good holy people. Movie makers and media in America are, from my experience of them, mostly anti-Catholic and not to be believed. If that offends you, I am sorry.
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The story of the Magadelene laundries that came here was in 1998. 60 Minutes did a story on it. They were interviewing three woman that were in the laundries. 2 had escaped and one, her family came back to claim here. These woman were all in the same convent, went back with, 60 Minutes in tow and showed where the laundries were, the kitchen, their room, and the graveyard of some who had died there.
My priest is from Dublin. After I saw the movie, I asked him about it. His mother would help girls get out of the laundries by offering her home a foster home. He said some of the stories they told were horrible.
 
Joan M:
What I wrote is not a “blanket dismissal”. What I am saying is that, to me, it is astonishing that this was not in the public eye at all. As I said, I never heard of any of these claims. You would think that there would have been some publicity in Ireland at the time. Perhaps I am a sceptic when something that happened in my country is grabbed on by people in the U.S. and used to blacken the name of nuns that, in the main, are good holy people. Movie makers and media in America are, from my experience of them, mostly anti-Catholic and not to be believed. If that offends you, I am sorry.
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Joan, I agree with you about the U.S. media–most of them are ill-informed about religion in general, and most particularly Catholicism, and in some instances are quite explicitly and viciously anti-Catholic. This pains me as well. I think it was Pat Buchanan who said that anti-Catholicism is the anti-semitism of the intellectual.

You seem to have missed my point, though. That these horrific events were swept under the rug during De Valera’s “Great Republic”–where widespread poverty, ignorance, and unemployment reigned supreme in my beloved country–should be no surprise to anyone who knows their 20c. Irish social and political history. If you think that the Magdalene Laundries film is primarily anti-Catholic propoganda from America, I would argue you are quite out of touch with the feelings of many people here in Ireland. I don’t know how much you follow what is actually happening today in Irish society, but this “scandal of epic proportions” to use Michael Rose’s phrase, has left a gaping wound in our hearts and in our communities that has not been healed.

Much of the grief these people feel stems, I think, not only from the fact that these events occurred, but equally from the fact that so many people around them, including Church authority figures, adult family members, and a government that was supposed to protect them stood by and pretending nothing was happening or that their claims were “grossly exaggerated” (to use your phrase.)

I believe your expressed attitude of disbelief shows an an arrogant lack of sympathy for the human suffering endured by these children, and is, unfortunately, indicative of that same mindset of “denial” (to use the common secular term) that surrounded these events whilst they happened and allowed them to continue. It is this viewpoint, not your very accurate observations about mainstream American media, that offends me.
 
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Faustina:
My priest is from Dublin. After I saw the movie, I asked him about it. His mother would help girls get out of the laundries by offering her home a foster home. He said some of the stories they told were horrible.
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I have nothing but the utmost respect–and sympathy-- for the priests and sisters trying to pick up the pieces from the damage wrought by these events. How devastating it must have been, and still be, for these extraordinarily good people to realise the enemy is within.

I saw a fascinating documentary a while back about the parish priest from the town in England (I can’t remember the name) where the serial killer Dr. Harold Shipman had lived. He is an elderly Irish priest, I think from Galway or Mayo originally, and struck me as a very holy priest an an extraordinary man of great compassion, gentleness, and integrity. He talked about his ministry in sheparding the community through the Shipman ordeal. He also talked about how when he was in Dublin a few years back he was practically spat on in the streets because of his Roman collar. All are tarred with the same brush–this is the other side to all of this, and it has done irreperable damage to the Church in Ireland
 
I believe your expressed attitude of disbelief shows an an arrogant lack of sympathy for the human suffering endured by these children, and is, unfortunately, indicative of that same mindset of “denial” (to use the common secular term) that surrounded these events whilst they happened and allowed them to continue. It is this viewpoint, not your very accurate observations about mainstream American media, that offends me.
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I’m sure Joan can defend herself, but I’ve read nothing in her posts that even implies “arrogant lack of sympathy” or “denial”. She is merely reserving judgement and wants to have sympathy based on facts as opposed to falling over herself apologizing against exaggerated claims.

Scott
 
I would be wary of taking the events protrayed in those films as ‘real life’. I live in Ireland and a similar film “Song for A Raggy Boy” was released about a year ago. This film is based on a persons account of the abuse suffered in an ‘boarding school/industrial school’ for boys run by the Christian Brothers in Cork. It presented and accepted as completely true, however the Christian Brothers never ran such a school in Cork.

While nobody denies that abuse took place it was not as widespread or systematic as is being protrayed. In fact it is a big problem in Ireland that once someone is accused of abuse the media accepts it as true and their lives are destroyed even when they are proven to be not guilty.

A support group called ‘LOVE’ Let Our Voices be Heard has been set up by former residents of the Magdalene Houses etc. to testify to the good experiences they had. These places were set up to help those who had nowhere else to go i.e. orphans and girls who had been thrown out of their homes because they were pregnant.
 
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