The mass reading on Thursday

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Speedypizza

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Before I begin please understand that I am just starting RCIA, and my intent is not to offend anybody. I am just not seeing anything good about this reading, in fact it sounds almost evil to me. Maybe I am somehow taking it wrong, but it sounds horrible to me.

Gn 16:1-12, 15-16 or 16:6b-12, 15-16
Abram’s wife Sarai had borne him no children.
She had, however, an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar.
Sarai said to Abram:
“The LORD has kept me from bearing children.
Have intercourse, then, with my maid;
perhaps I shall have sons through her.”
Abram heeded Sarai’s request.
Thus, after Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan,
his wife Sarai took her maid, Hagar the Egyptian,
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his concubine.
He had intercourse with her, and she became pregnant.
When she became aware of her pregnancy,
she looked on her mistress with disdain.
So Sarai said to Abram:
“You are responsible for this outrage against me.
I myself gave my maid to your embrace;
but ever since she became aware of her pregnancy,
she has been looking on me with disdain.
May the LORD decide between you and me!”
Abram told Sarai: “Your maid is in your power.
Do to her whatever you please.”
Sarai then abused her so much that Hagar ran away from her.

The LORD’s messenger found her by a spring in the wilderness,
the spring on the road to Shur, and he asked,
“Hagar, maid of Sarai, where have you come from
and where are you going?”
She answered, “I am running away from my mistress, Sarai.”
But the LORD’s messenger told her:
“Go back to your mistress and submit to her abusive treatment.
I will make your descendants so numerous,” added the LORD’s messenger,
“that they will be too many to count.
Besides,” the LORD’s messenger said to her:

“You are now pregnant and shall bear a son;
you shall name him Ishmael,
For the LORD has heard you,
God has answered you.

This one shall be a wild *** of a man,
his hand against everyone,
and everyone’s hand against him;
In opposition to all his kin
shall he encamp.”

Hagar bore Abram a son,
and Abram named the son whom Hagar bore him Ishmael.
Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

Let me get this straight, Abram, who is a “moral and upstanding man” is sleeping with his wives handmaiden, which sounds a little like rape, as I don’t see anybody asking her if she wants to sleep with this old man. THEN when she becomes pregnant, she looks funny at Abrams wife. She then complains to Abram, who being a “moral and upstanding man” tells his wife to treat the pregnant girl who is carrying HIS child any way she likes?!?!?
She then runs away so as not be be abused anymore, and "But the LORD’s messenger told her: “Go back to your mistress and submit to her abusive treatment. ?!?!?!?

As if to add salt to the wound, the homily was on how great Abram was! Great??? Please help me understand this, because I have seen other “moral and upstanding” men doing 20-life for things very much like this.
 
Good morning! I’m sure someone much better versed than I will be along, but I thought you might like this article: womeninthebible.net/1.2.Hagar.htm#What%20the%20story%20is%20about

Just as when we study any ancient culture, it is important to put the person and actions in perspective. Abram (Abraham) wouldn’t seem honorable, sleeping with his wife’s slave (after all, slavery and adultery are mortal sins!) in our time and culture, but his actions in his own time were more civilized and honorable than those around him.
 
Okay…one thing that is particularly hard to accept, especially for new Christians, is that God has always favored His chosen people. This is especially apparent in the Old Testament. This has to do with Sovereignty of God, that He is in control and that He knows what is best. Of course, it is also apparent in the Scriptures that His love and His Son are for all peoples. But He chooses who He chooses and He favors who He favors. Paul addresses this in the New Testament with regards to Esau and Jacob. Paul asks, and I am paraphrasing, who are you o man, to talk back to God? Can the thing that was created say to the One who created him, why have you made me this way? In the limited scope of things, many instances in the Old Testament seem unfair to the parties involved. But to the transcendent plan of God, they are serving a greater purpose.

This is just my opinion of course but I hope that maybe it offers some perspective. God knows everything. We do not. Peace to you my friend and I will pray for your RCIA journey.
 
Speedypizza said:
Before I begin please understand that I am just starting RCIA, and my intent is not to offend anybody. I am just not seeing anything good about this reading, in fact it sounds almost evil to me. Maybe I am somehow taking it wrong, but it sounds horrible to me.

Gn 16:1-12, 15-16 or 16:6b-12, 15-16
Abram’s wife Sarai had borne him no children.
She had, however, an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar.
Sarai said to Abram:
“The LORD has kept me from bearing children.
Have intercourse, then, with my maid;
perhaps I shall have sons through her.”
Abram heeded Sarai’s request.
Thus, after Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan,
his wife Sarai took her maid, Hagar the Egyptian,
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his concubine.
He had intercourse with her, and she became pregnant.
When she became aware of her pregnancy,
she looked on her mistress with disdain.
So Sarai said to Abram:
“You are responsible for this outrage against me.
I myself gave my maid to your embrace;
but ever since she became aware of her pregnancy,
she has been looking on me with disdain.
May the LORD decide between you and me!”
Abram told Sarai: “Your maid is in your power.
Do to her whatever you please.”
Sarai then abused her so much that Hagar ran away from her.

The LORD’s messenger found her by a spring in the wilderness,
the spring on the road to Shur, and he asked,
“Hagar, maid of Sarai, where have you come from
and where are you going?”
She answered, “I am running away from my mistress, Sarai.”
But the LORD’s messenger told her:
“Go back to your mistress and submit to her abusive treatment.
I will make your descendants so numerous,” added the LORD’s messenger,
“that they will be too many to count.
Besides,” the LORD’s messenger said to her:

“You are now pregnant and shall bear a son;
you shall name him Ishmael,
For the LORD has heard you,
God has answered you.

This one shall be a wild *** of a man,
his hand against everyone,
and everyone’s hand against him;
In opposition to all his kin
shall he encamp.”

Hagar bore Abram a son,
and Abram named the son whom Hagar bore him Ishmael.
Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

Let me get this straight, Abram, who is a “moral and upstanding man” is sleeping with his wives handmaiden, which sounds a little like rape, as I don’t see anybody asking her if she wants to sleep with this old man. THEN when she becomes pregnant, she looks funny at Abrams wife. She then complains to Abram, who being a “moral and upstanding man” tells his wife to treat the pregnant girl who is carrying HIS child any way she likes?!?!?
She then runs away so as not be be abused anymore, and "But the LORD’s messenger told her: “Go back to your mistress and submit to her abusive treatment. ?!?!?!?

As if to add salt to the wound, the homily was on how great Abram was! Great??? Please help me understand this, because I have seen other “moral and upstanding” men doing 20-life for things very much like this.
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Hi!

…let me see if I can help you understand this passage…

We must read Scriptures paying attention to both content and context; Abraham was well to do; he own land, animals and servants/slaves; he and Sarah (Sara/Sarai) were up in the eighties or past it; Sarah had been baren all her life; Yahweh God spoke to Abraham about his fellowship and promised him that He would visit Abraham with, what was greatly desired back then, family (offsprings); leave it to man to figure out a way to help God out… since it was the culture around them, a household without heirs was seen as cursed by God… so it had become the norm that when a woman was baren she would could order her maid/servant to bed the husband in an effort to procure an offspring–slaves were fully owned by their owners who could dispose of them as they pleased (today we call it surrogacy as we have the money and technology to rent a womb to selectively procure an offspring from a receptive woman rather than from a slave).

…as it happens, the younger (most provably in her twenties) woman was fertile and quickly became with child; as time passed Hagar, the slave, began to hold Sarah hostage as she would taunt her intertility; Sarah responded in kind–but it was Sarah who had the upper-hand so Hagar was put through the grinder whenever she flaunted her pregnancy…

Since Ishmael was not Yahweh’s choice, the true heir, Isaac, would soon come into the picture; yet, in spite of their erroneous judgment, God held Abraham accountable for the child Hagar carried and He forced Sarah to contend with Hagar; though it seems awful, it is easier to survive insults and physical injuries at the hand of an old woman than it is to survice death (Hagar had no resources and, more likely than not, she and her child would perish either by the elements or by predation).

What is truly interesting, at least to me, is the fact that two nations arose from Abraham: the son of Hagar, the slave, would eventually raise his hand against Isaac the son of the Promise… as it was mentioned on a previous post, Yahweh God determines how, when and through whom His Salvific Plan is to be implemented!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Note that Jacob’s wives did the same in their contest on who could have the most children.
30 So Jacob went in to Rachel also, and he loved Rachel more than Leah, and served Laban for another seven years. 31 When the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb; but Rachel was barren. 32 And Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; * for she said, “Because the LORD has looked upon my affliction; surely now my husband will love me.” 33 She conceived again and bore a son, and said, “Because the LORD has heard* that I am hated, he has given me this son also”; and she called his name Simeon. 34 Again she conceived and bore a son, and said, “Now this time my husband will be joined* to me, because I have borne him three sons”; therefore his name was called Levi. 35 And she conceived again and bore a son, and said, “This time I will praise* the LORD”; therefore she called his name Judah; then she ceased bearing. Back to top
Chapter 30
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1 When Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, she envied her sister; and she said to Jacob, “Give me children, or I shall die!” 2 Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel, and he said, “Am I in the place of God, who has withheld from you the fruit of the womb?” 3 Then she said, “Here is my maid Bilhah; go in to her, that she may bear upon my knees, and even I may have children through her.” 4 So she gave him her maid Bilhah as a wife; and Jacob went in to her. 5 And Bilhah conceived and bore Jacob a son. 6 Then Rachel said, “God has judged me, and has also heard my voice and given me a son”; therefore she called his name Dan. * 7 Rachel’s maid Bilhah conceived again and bore Jacob a second son. 8 Then Rachel said, “With mighty wrestlings I have wrestled* with my sister, and have prevailed”; so she called his name Naphtali. 9 When Leah saw that she had ceased bearing children, she took her maid Zilpah and gave her to Jacob as a wife. 10 Then Leah’s maid Zilpah bore Jacob a son. 11 And Leah said, “Good fortune!” so she called his name Gad. * 12 Leah’s maid Zilpah bore Jacob a second son. 13 And Leah said, “Happy am I! For the women will call me happy”; so she called his name Asher. * 14 In the days of wheat harvest Reuben went and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them to his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, “Give me, I pray, some of your son’s mandrakes.” 15 But she said to her, “Is it a small matter that you have taken away my husband? Would you take away my son’s mandrakes also?” Rachel said, “Then he may lie with you tonight for your son’s mandrakes.” 16 When Jacob came from the field in the evening, Leah went out to meet him, and said, “You must come in to me; for I have hired you with my son’s mandrakes.” So he lay with her that night. 17 And God hearkened to Leah, and she conceived and bore Jacob a fifth son. 18 Leah said, “God has given me my hire* because I gave my maid to my husband”; so she called his name Issachar. 19 And Leah conceived again, and she bore Jacob a sixth son. 20 Then Leah said, “God has endowed me with a good dowry; now my husband will honor* me, because I have borne him six sons”; so she called his name Zebulun. 21 Afterwards she bore a daughter, and called her name Dinah. 22 Then God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her and opened her womb. 23 She conceived and bore a son, and said, “God has taken away my reproach”; 24 and she called his name Joseph, * saying, “May the LORD add to me another son!” 25 When Rachel had borne Joseph, Jacob said to Laban, "Send me away, that I may go to my own home and country.
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Genesis 29:30-30:26
 
First of all, it’s a historical story. If you read history, you will see human behavior at its best and its worst, Even in the Bible, they’re not always going to tell you the moral of the story. You’re going to have to figure it out for yourself.

Second, the most important thing about the Abraham story (and heck, most of Genesis) is that humans are forever making sinful decisions, but God continues to keep His side of the Covenant and treat them as His tribe.

Third, you see that God didn’t approve of Hagar getting treated like crud. He only sent her back because she had a right not to die along with her baby in the wilderness, and because having been crowbarred by human doubt into the plan of salvation, He owed her the same crazy tests and immense rewards as the rest of Abraham’s tribe. Being part of Abraham’s tribe would ultimately do Ishmael and Hagar good (to a supernatural extent) if they could stick it out a few years; and Hagar was brave enough to do it. Ishmael does come into the story more than just as a baby in danger.

Fourth, Abraham and Sarah do get punished; and the punishment for their actions continues to this day, as Abraham’s descendants go at each other.

Fifth, the theme of brother against brother (and why it’s bad!) and woman against woman is indeed all through Genesis. Jacob and Esau are about the only ones to break the curse in Genesis (and in Exodus, even Moses and Aaron and Miriam fight some).
 
Don’t look for moral perfection in the people of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ is our example of moral perfection.

My New St. Joseph’s Weekday Missal says:
This section of Genesis shows the marriage customs of the day. God would gradually lead his people to appreciate the exclusiveness of the marriage bond. In the meantime, God creates a new nation from the union of Abraham and the slave Hagar.
 
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