The more you know, the more you held accountable for?

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PelagiathePenit

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Maybe it will take me years to understand this. God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better? If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? What differences does prayer make anyways? Also do not understand, why God or Jesus would forgive a person who commits murder or rape or theft? For the most part there are obviously kind people and obviously unkind people. Maybe this is a topic I will let it rest. Some people stress themselves out over an unkind thought while others could care less if they insult someone. If you are very good yet self-righteous and judgmental, you worse than the worse criminal? I do not like snobs either, but I just do not understand why Jesus was so harsh on the Pharisees, if they honestly followed the law and just thought they were better than others? Why is pride so offensive? Not everyone on Earth will receive the same opportunity to know God. Some of us, know him more or less in this life. It seems more logical that a loving atheist would go to heaven over a hateful, but repentant Christian. What is good repentance if you intentionally selected to transgress?
 
Maybe it will take me years to understand this. God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better? If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? What differences does prayer make anyways? Also do not understand, why God or Jesus would forgive a person who commits murder or rape or theft? For the most part there are obviously kind people and obviously unkind people. Maybe this is a topic I will let it rest. Some people stress themselves out over an unkind thought while others could care less if they insult someone. If you are very good yet self-righteous and judgmental, you worse than the worse criminal? I do not like snobs either, but I just do not understand why Jesus was so harsh on the Pharisees, if they honestly followed the law and just thought they were better than others? Why is pride so offensive? Not everyone on Earth will receive the same opportunity to know God. Some of us, know him more or less in this life. It seems more logical that a loving atheist would go to heaven over a hateful, but repentant Christian. What is good repentance if you intentionally selected to transgress?
Pelagia,
I think you should pray more and think less 🙂 Pope Francis and others are trying to teach us that we are following a Person Who really loves us, and these things you see as restrictions are really His directions on how we can get to Heaven to be with Him, where He wants us to be. You seem to be spending a lot of time going around and around about these issues of good people and who gets to Heaven… but that is all very unimportant! What is important is that our loving Creator sent His only Son to us, and that He suffered and died for you!

Tomorrow is Friday–a very good day to pray the Sorrowful Mysteries. Maybe you can even pray the Rosary in a church in front if the Blessed Sacrament! But that can be hard to get to, so just focus on praying the Sorrowful mysteries and really thinking about what Christ went theough for us while you pray.
 
Pelagia,
I think you should pray more and think less 🙂 Pope Francis and others are trying to teach us that we are following a Person Who really loves us, and these things you see as restrictions are really His directions on how we can get to Heaven to be with Him, where He wants us to be. You seem to be spending a lot of time going around and around about these issues of good people and who gets to Heaven… but that is all very unimportant! What is important is that our loving Creator sent His only Son to us, and that He suffered and died for you!

Tomorrow is Friday–a very good day to pray the Sorrowful Mysteries. Maybe you can even pray the Rosary in a church in front if the Blessed Sacrament! But that can be hard to get to, so just focus on praying the Sorrowful mysteries and really thinking about what Christ went theough for us while you pray.
You are right. I should pray more.
 
Maybe it will take me years to understand this. God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better? If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? What differences does prayer make anyways? Also do not understand, why God or Jesus would forgive a person who commits murder or rape or theft? For the most part there are obviously kind people and obviously unkind people. Maybe this is a topic I will let it rest. Some people stress themselves out over an unkind thought while others could care less if they insult someone. If you are very good yet self-righteous and judgmental, you worse than the worse criminal? I do not like snobs either, but I just do not understand why Jesus was so harsh on the Pharisees, if they honestly followed the law and just thought they were better than others? Why is pride so offensive? Not everyone on Earth will receive the same opportunity to know God. Some of us, know him more or less in this life. It seems more logical that a loving atheist would go to heaven over a hateful, but repentant Christian. What is good repentance if you intentionally selected to transgress?
Pride is the *excessive *love of one’s own excellence, and it the root of all sins, whereby one removes themselves from the subjection to God.

Repentance means turning away from the sin, as learned from the Church or conscience. There is no repentance where there is not sorrow and the intention to sin no more (called contrition or attrition).

Regarding conscience the Catechism states:1777 Moral conscience,48 present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
 
Maybe it will take me years to understand this. God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better?

If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? What differences does prayer make anyways?
:mad::nope::mad:

No one is good without God. That is an alluring deception that is formed from both human error and Satanic influence.

No one is naturally similar to God, for we are all born into sin, hence why Jesus Christ came down to teach us how we may attain true virtue. We attain true virtue by being like God in terms of how we view the world and how we behave, and being like God is hard, hence why Cafeteria Catholics exist.

Prayer is basically the act of connecting oneself to God. By connecting ourselves to God and his eternal mind, we make ourselves more lenient to the constant promptings of the Holy Spirit, who is ever ready to dwell within us at the earliest opportunity.

Saying that human beings, when tainted with the scorn of sin and pride, can be good without God, is like saying that water is not required to maintain the Earth and its creatures.

:crutches: :crutches:
We. Need. God. In. Order. To. Survive!
:crutches: :crutches:
 
It sounds like you are sorting through a number of different moral and theological issues all at once. What you’re doing is very challenging and difficult, but you are on a good path. I would like to offer a few thoughts with the hope that they are helpful to you in the long and short run, but take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I am just a human being!

God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better? Human knowledge of right and wrong (think Adam, Eve, Original Sin) and systems of moral application (the Law of Moses) are necessary realities, but they are not the final realities: the Gospel can lead us from a servant-master relationship (where God ‘punishes’ us ‘worse’ because we ‘know better’) to a parent-child relationship (where God corrects us appropriately because he wants to teach us better). This is what it is like to be led by the Spirit, who instructs us even when we DON’T know what is best–our failures become a step on a journey closer to God, instead of a step backward.

**If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? ** For this reason, Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Doctors heal sick people, and the Church saves sinners. However, though there are many good people who are not ‘religious’ in the usual sense, I’ve never met someone so good that they would not benefit from the amazing life of the Church!

What differences does prayer make anyways? I’ve wrestled with this question for a long time. The ancients had many different perspectives on prayer, and one perspective I’ve found useful is that living well, living a good life, is an act of prayer. Another thought I’ve found useful is that “prayer” is an intentional expression of hope, and hope is so important in a world that threatens to overwhelm us with darkness.

** Also do not understand, why God or Jesus would forgive a person who commits murder or rape or theft?** Why shouldn’t he?

**If you are very good yet self-righteous and judgmental, you worse than the worse criminal? ** No. Being an overall good person is a great thing, even if you have the flaw of being judgmental or self-righteous. It sounds like you you are talking about being “very good” in the sense of keeping the rules, and it’s important not to confuse being obedient with being decent to other people. Aim for both, not one or the other, and just keep trying.

**I do not like snobs either, but I just do not understand why Jesus was so harsh on the Pharisees, if they honestly followed the law and just thought they were better than others? Why is pride so offensive? ** Pride and snobbery is especially offensive when it leads religious leaders to create an atmosphere of unrealistic expectations and procedures that bind and twist up ordinary people who can’t live up to their artificially high standards. The scribes and Pharisees of the New Testament weren’t JUST hypocritical–they were hypocritical AND in charge, which is a destructive combination. Most people are hypocritical at least occasionally, but some hypocrites also have humility, and the self-awareness to know they are fail to live up to their own standards (the definition of hypocrisy!): the sinner who weeps and pleads for mercy goes away justified, while the ‘saint’ who proudly exalts himself for his righteousness stands in judgment.

Not everyone on Earth will receive the same opportunity to know God. Some of us, know him more or less in this life. It seems more logical that a loving atheist would go to heaven over a hateful, but repentant Christian.

Good observation! That is why it is better to leave the eternal judgment of souls up to God in heaven and strive to be a good person, than to worry about what is fair.

What is good repentance if you intentionally selected to transgress? It’s very good indeed. The prayer I’ve been taught goes something like: Oh God, I’m sorry for my sins with all my heart–for in choosing to do evil, and in failing to do good, I have sinned against you, whom I should love above all things. I firmly intend–with your help–to do penance, to sin no more, and to avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our savior, Jesus Christ, suffered and died for us. In his name, O God, have mercy."

This act of prayer is an expression of hope that acknowledges the higher ideals I know to be true, and the failures of thought and behavior that fall short of this knowledge, and orients me towards the development of a better moral character. This is not just repenting so that we can continue sinning when we want to later, but repenting with an eye towards discontinuing the sins and habits that obstruct our spiritual development. Putting this prayer into practice is a good way to escape the pitfall of hypocrisy while maintaining a healthy parent-child relationship with our Father in heaven and our Mother Church on earth.

Do not think less and pray more. Think and pray together, and strengthen your faith by practicing virtue when confronting authentic doubt.
 
It sounds like you are sorting through a number of different moral and theological issues all at once. What you’re doing is very challenging and difficult, but you are on a good path. I would like to offer a few thoughts with the hope that they are helpful to you in the long and short run, but take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I am just a human being!

God is harsher on his followers because they know better. What good it is to know better? Human knowledge of right and wrong (think Adam, Eve, Original Sin) and systems of moral application (the Law of Moses) are necessary realities, but they are not the final realities: the Gospel can lead us from a servant-master relationship (where God ‘punishes’ us ‘worse’ because we ‘know better’) to a parent-child relationship (where God corrects us appropriately because he wants to teach us better). This is what it is like to be led by the Spirit, who instructs us even when we DON’T know what is best–our failures become a step on a journey closer to God, instead of a step backward.

**If a person can be good without God, then why need a religion? ** For this reason, Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Doctors heal sick people, and the Church saves sinners. However, though there are many good people who are not ‘religious’ in the usual sense, I’ve never met someone so good that they would not benefit from the amazing life of the Church!

What differences does prayer make anyways? I’ve wrestled with this question for a long time. The ancients had many different perspectives on prayer, and one perspective I’ve found useful is that living well, living a good life, is an act of prayer. Another thought I’ve found useful is that “prayer” is an intentional expression of hope, and hope is so important in a world that threatens to overwhelm us with darkness.

** Also do not understand, why God or Jesus would forgive a person who commits murder or rape or theft?** Why shouldn’t he?

**If you are very good yet self-righteous and judgmental, you worse than the worse criminal? ** No. Being an overall good person is a great thing, even if you have the flaw of being judgmental or self-righteous. It sounds like you you are talking about being “very good” in the sense of keeping the rules, and it’s important not to confuse being obedient with being decent to other people. Aim for both, not one or the other, and just keep trying.

**I do not like snobs either, but I just do not understand why Jesus was so harsh on the Pharisees, if they honestly followed the law and just thought they were better than others? Why is pride so offensive? ** Pride and snobbery is especially offensive when it leads religious leaders to create an atmosphere of unrealistic expectations and procedures that bind and twist up ordinary people who can’t live up to their artificially high standards. The scribes and Pharisees of the New Testament weren’t JUST hypocritical–they were hypocritical AND in charge, which is a destructive combination. Most people are hypocritical at least occasionally, but some hypocrites also have humility, and the self-awareness to know they are fail to live up to their own standards (the definition of hypocrisy!): the sinner who weeps and pleads for mercy goes away justified, while the ‘saint’ who proudly exalts himself for his righteousness stands in judgment.

Not everyone on Earth will receive the same opportunity to know God. Some of us, know him more or less in this life. It seems more logical that a loving atheist would go to heaven over a hateful, but repentant Christian.

Good observation! That is why it is better to leave the eternal judgment of souls up to God in heaven and strive to be a good person, than to worry about what is fair.

What is good repentance if you intentionally selected to transgress? It’s very good indeed. The prayer I’ve been taught goes something like: Oh God, I’m sorry for my sins with all my heart–for in choosing to do evil, and in failing to do good, I have sinned against you, whom I should love above all things. I firmly intend–with your help–to do penance, to sin no more, and to avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our savior, Jesus Christ, suffered and died for us. In his name, O God, have mercy."

This act of prayer is an expression of hope that acknowledges the higher ideals I know to be true, and the failures of thought and behavior that fall short of this knowledge, and orients me towards the development of a better moral character. This is not just repenting so that we can continue sinning when we want to later, but repenting with an eye towards discontinuing the sins and habits that obstruct our spiritual development. Putting this prayer into practice is a good way to escape the pitfall of hypocrisy while maintaining a healthy parent-child relationship with our Father in heaven and our Mother Church on earth.

**Do not think less and pray more. Think and pray together, **and strengthen your faith by practicing virtue when confronting authentic doubt.
That’s what I should have said, thank you 🙂
 
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