The need for the ultimate 'sin offering'

[noorez]

In Islam, when it comes it sin and the repentance for it: we simply believe that if we repent of our sins, with a sincere and contrite heart, have a willingness to change our sinful ways and have complete and utter faith in God (and in the promises of mercy that he gives in the Quran) then we will have forgiveness of our sins.

(If I am not mistaken) Christians seem to have a problem with this. Christians seem to think that in this way, God is in a way ‘ignoring’ the sins of man; that God is being unjust by simply forgiving sins without some type of ‘penalty’. I would disagree with this though. God is not simply overlooking the seriousness of sin. God gives very clear warnings about the consequences of sin (namely Hell fire). However, God also teaches us that if we repent, we can escape this Hell fire. When a man truly repents of his sin (with the contrite heart), he (probably) feels a great deal of guilt and shame at what he has done. Some Islamic scholars interpret this feeling as a kind of ‘purifying fire’ that God instills in the heart of the repentant sinner in order to cleanse him of his sin. So I would say here that God is not simply ignoring the sin, but instead of punishing the sinner (with Hell fire) he is in a sense leading him back to the right path. Perhaps God might place additional forms of penance into this mans life that he might be purified.

So now I need a christian response to this thinking: Why is it that God requires the harsh penalty of sin offering in Jesus? I understand the Christian understanding that “God is so holy that he cannot have sin in his sight.” However, I (and Islam) would somewhat extend that to say “…but only the sight of the unrepentant sinner. The one who truly recognizes his imperfection before his perfect lord is good in the sight of God”.

When God created us, he knew that we would not be perfect (no blame on God for our sins, only blame human choice), and therefore looks upon us with compassion, should we be willing to submit to his will and not pursue our own wills.

Just as an additional note: I have already considered the response that “we ordinary sinful humans cannot offer anything to God to make us worthy”. Islam would simply respond to that by saying that God does not ask of us anything that extraordinary to make us worthy (or justify us).

 

[fhansen]

In Islam, when it comes it sin and the repentance for it: we simply believe that if we repent of our sins, with a sincere and contrite heart, have a willingness to change our sinful ways and have complete and utter faith in God (and in the promises of mercy that he gives in the Quran) then we will have forgiveness of our sins.

(If I am not mistaken) Christians seem to have a problem with this. Christians seem to think that in this way, God is in a way ‘ignoring’ the sins of man; that God is being unjust by simply forgiving sins without some type of ‘penalty’. I would disagree with this though. God is not simply overlooking the seriousness of sin. God gives very clear warnings about the consequences of sin (namely Hell fire). However, God also teaches us that if we repent, we can escape this Hell fire. When a man truly repents of his sin (with the contrite heart), he (probably) feels a great deal of guilt and shame at what he has done. Some Islamic scholars interpret this feeling as a kind of ‘purifying fire’ that God instills in the heart of the repentant sinner in order to cleanse him of his sin. So I would say here that God is not simply ignoring the sin, but instead of punishing the sinner (with Hell fire) he is in a sense leading him back to the right path. Perhaps God might place additional forms of penance into this mans life that he might be purified.

So now I need a christian response to this thinking: Why is it that God requires the harsh penalty of sin offering in Jesus? I understand the Christian understanding that “God is so holy that he cannot have sin in his sight.” However, I (and Islam) would somewhat extend that to say “…but only the sight of the unrepentant sinner. The one who truly recognizes his imperfection before his perfect lord is good in the sight of God”.

When God created us, he knew that we would not be perfect (no blame on God for our sins, only blame human choice), and therefore looks upon us with compassion, should we be willing to submit to his will and not pursue our own wills.

Just as an additional note: I have already considered the response that “we ordinary sinful humans cannot offer anything to God to make us worthy”. Islam would simply respond to that by saying that God does not ask of us anything that extraordinary to make us worthy (or justify us).

What Christianity maintains is that, yes, God forgives our sins, but He wants more for us than that. He didn’t create man to sin to begin with and He doesn’t intend to leave man powerless against and enslaved to sin forever. So, with the New Covenant, God not only forgives sins but He also gives us the power, as we’re willing, to overcome sin, to ‘go, and sin no more’. God wants His creation just.

 

[Shamati]

In Islam, when it comes it sin and the repentance for it: we simply believe that if we repent of our sins, with a sincere and contrite heart, have a willingness to change our sinful ways and have complete and utter faith in God (and in the promises of mercy that he gives in the Quran) then we will have forgiveness of our sins.

(If I am not mistaken) Christians seem to have a problem with this. Christians seem to think that in this way, God is in a way ‘ignoring’ the sins of man; that God is being unjust by simply forgiving sins without some type of ‘penalty’. I would disagree with this though. God is not simply overlooking the seriousness of sin. God gives very clear warnings about the consequences of sin (namely Hell fire). However, God also teaches us that if we repent, we can escape this Hell fire. When a man truly repents of his sin (with the contrite heart), he (probably) feels a great deal of guilt and shame at what he has done. Some Islamic scholars interpret this feeling as a kind of ‘purifying fire’ that God instills in the heart of the repentant sinner in order to cleanse him of his sin. So I would say here that God is not simply ignoring the sin, but instead of punishing the sinner (with Hell fire) he is in a sense leading him back to the right path. Perhaps God might place additional forms of penance into this mans life that he might be purified.

So now I need a christian response to this thinking: Why is it that God requires the harsh penalty of sin offering in Jesus? I understand the Christian understanding that “God is so holy that he cannot have sin in his sight.” However, I (and Islam) would somewhat extend that to say “…but only the sight of the unrepentant sinner. The one who truly recognizes his imperfection before his perfect lord is good in the sight of God”.

When God created us, he knew that we would not be perfect (no blame on God for our sins, only blame human choice), and therefore looks upon us with compassion, should we be willing to submit to his will and not pursue our own wills.

Just as an additional note: I have already considered the response that “we ordinary sinful humans cannot offer anything to God to make us worthy”. Islam would simply respond to that by saying that God does not ask of us anything that extraordinary to make us worthy (or justify us).

It’s only western christianity that mantains that the flesh is sinful by nature.
The Orthodox have a view similar to Judaism. That is we humans sin because of death, which is the consequence of Adam and Eve. In Orthodox Christianity there is no such thing as “Hell” or “Heaven” before the resurrection. We all probably go to different levels of Hades. to believe that the Body is intrinsically evil and the soul is intrinsically good is gnosticism, a pagan idea inherited from the days when aristotelean philosophy had a big impact on western christian thought

 

[ltwin]

In Islam, when it comes it sin and the repentance for it: we simply believe that if we repent of our sins, with a sincere and contrite heart, have a willingness to change our sinful ways and have complete and utter faith in God (and in the promises of mercy that he gives in the Quran) then we will have forgiveness of our sins.

(If I am not mistaken) Christians seem to have a problem with this. Christians seem to think that in this way, God is in a way ‘ignoring’ the sins of man; that God is being unjust by simply forgiving sins without some type of ‘penalty’. I would disagree with this though. God is not simply overlooking the seriousness of sin. God gives very clear warnings about the consequences of sin (namely Hell fire). However, God also teaches us that if we repent, we can escape this Hell fire. When a man truly repents of his sin (with the contrite heart), he (probably) feels a great deal of guilt and shame at what he has done. Some Islamic scholars interpret this feeling as a kind of ‘purifying fire’ that God instills in the heart of the repentant sinner in order to cleanse him of his sin. So I would say here that God is not simply ignoring the sin, but instead of punishing the sinner (with Hell fire) he is in a sense leading him back to the right path. Perhaps God might place additional forms of penance into this mans life that he might be purified.

So now I need a christian response to this thinking: Why is it that God requires the harsh penalty of sin offering in Jesus? I understand the Christian understanding that “God is so holy that he cannot have sin in his sight.” However, I (and Islam) would somewhat extend that to say “…but only the sight of the unrepentant sinner. The one who truly recognizes his imperfection before his perfect lord is good in the sight of God”.

When God created us, he knew that we would not be perfect (no blame on God for our sins, only blame human choice), and therefore looks upon us with compassion, should we be willing to submit to his will and not pursue our own wills.

Just as an additional note: I have already considered the response that “we ordinary sinful humans cannot offer anything to God to make us worthy”. Islam would simply respond to that by saying that God does not ask of us anything that extraordinary to make us worthy (or justify us).

The death of Christ goes beyond God’s need for justice. It includes the incarnation as well.

When God made man, he made us in His image. He made us to reflect His glory and His beauty and His perfection. Through freewill and self-determination, man sinned.

In Christ, God has become man. He lived as we lived. Faced the same struggles that we face. The same poverty. The same hardship. The same systems of injustice. He faced the temptations (though He never sinned).

He was the perfect man. He lived in our situation and circumstance, but He walked blameless before God. He was righteous. He was holy. He was love personified.

In His life and in His death and in His resurrection, Christ redeemed us.

By sharing in the life and the death and the resurrection of Christ, humans can be all that we were created to be. This why Christ is called the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

We are being transformed into the image of Christ and our mind, will, and emotions are being renewed and perfected. In Christ, all things are made new. What man has destroyed and broken in rebellion against God, Christ is making new.

 

[asd72]

It’s only western christianity that mantains that the flesh is sinful by nature.
The Orthodox have a view similar to Judaism. That is we humans sin because of death, which is the consequence of Adam and Eve. In Orthodox Christianity there is no such thing as “Hell” or “Heaven” before the resurrection. We all probably go to different levels of Hades. to believe that the Body is intrinsically evil and the soul is intrinsically good is gnosticism, a pagan idea inherited from the days when aristotelean philosophy had a big impact on western christian thought

Western Christianity refers to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church and it’s Protestant offshoots, so I would like to refute your statement that Western Christianity “maintains that the flesh is sinful by nature” from at least the Catholic perspective!

For a start the term ‘the flesh’ is often not referring to the human body. It is many times contrasted with the spirit, and at those times is usually referring to the human nature wounded by original sin. The human body and it’s natural drives are ‘very good’, it is original sin which distorts these natural drives that is the problem, not the body itself.

Catholicism has repeatedly condemned the teaching that the material world is evil, and the spiritual good. This teaching was a feature of the gnostic’s as you say, and also the Albigenses and Manichaeans. These teaching were declared heretical by the Catholic Church!!

Did you think the Catholic Church taught this? Or were you referring to Some of the Protestant denominations in which you have come across this teaching?