The Pain Of Suffering

[Cathdefender]

Scripture doesn’t say that God inflicts us with suffering. Go back and read what I posted on that.

But Scripture DOES tell us that we ARE going to suffer, but not to worry. When one suffers, that is when he is the closest to God.

 

[Swan]

But Scripture DOES tell us that we ARE going to suffer, but not to worry. When one suffers, that is when he is the closest to God.

Perhaps, but this is not my experience. When I am in the depths of depression I would give anything to feel God’s presence but I don’t. One of my most vivid memories of my time in the psych ward was the feeling of God’s total absence - not the slightest hint of comfort which would have made the situation so much more bearable. And please don’t tell me I wasn’t open or trying hard enough. We’re talking a mental disorder here that skews perception and often makes rational action impossible.

 

[Cathdefender]

Perhaps, but this is not my experience. When I am in the depths of depression I would give anything to feel God’s presence but I don’t. One of my most vivid memories of my time in the psych ward was the feeling of God’s total absence - not the slightest hint of comfort which would have made the situation so much more bearable. And please don’t tell me I wasn’t open or trying hard enough. We’re talking a mental disorder here that skews perception and often makes rational action impossible.

I’m sorry about your depression, I know others as well like yourself. Maybe something is missing in your life. Try reciting the rosary. That always helped me. The rosary is a weapon against satan.

 

[Sepharad]

Can anyone here, Catholic and non-Catholic find any beauty of suffering?

Orthodox Judaism teaches that suffering is sent by God to teach us, to strengthen us, and sometimes, to make us see areas of our lives that need correcting.

And sometimes, suffering happens because God sees “the big picture”, and foresees that He will bring something good out of the suffering.

The Ramchal (Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto, Italian kabbalist/rabbi), in “Derech Hashem” (“The Way of God”), taught that God sometimes sends very little suffering on earth to unrighteous people, because He is rewarding them for the little they did that was good. (Because He knows they will be punished in the afterlife, He rewards them for the little good they did, while they are still on earth.) This is because God is just, and will always reward someone for the good they did do, even if it was little, and they were unrighteous.

But He sends much suffering to the righteous while they are on earth, because that way, in the World to Come, they will spend less time, if any, in gehinnom (“purgatory” to you folks). In other words, He allows the righteous to atone for the punishments due to their (usually few) sins while on earth, so as to give them a more glorious entry to the World to Come!

This explains why the righteous often suffer much more than the unrighteous.

We also are taught that souls come into this world to serve a purpose, and once that purpose is served, they depart. This is why babies sometimes die before they are born…because they spent just enough time here to fulfill a certain purpose, which sometimes is known only to God. (I saw this take place in my own life, when my husband and I lost four of our babies due to stillbirth. The deaths of those babies, in a way I never would have imagined, served to bring a member of my family back to the Jewish faith, who had long since given it up when he was little!)

 

[SIA]

I’m sorry about your depression, I know others as well like yourself. Maybe something is missing in your life. Try reciting the rosary. That always helped me. The rosary is a weapon against satan.

Or just go to a different church where the Holy Spirit touches you. This is what I did several years ago and now I know the peace and love of our God and know that even when we suffer sometimes, it isn’t because he gave it to us. There are alot of mixed messages going on in this thread that are not Godly and not Biblical and the ones that are spreading it are poisoning people here searching for peace, mainly that of our Lord.

 

[Sepharad]

Or just go to a different church where the Holy Spirit touches you. This is what I did several years ago and now I know the peace and love of our God and know that even when we suffer sometimes, it isn’t because he gave it to us. There are alot of mixed messages going on in this thread that are not Godly and not Biblical and the ones that are spreading it are poisoning people here searching for peace, mainly that of our Lord.

Sometimes God allows things to happen in our lives because He knows He will bring greater good from it. Your Catholic St Augustine even echoed this Jewish teaching when he said: “God allows suffering when He foresees that good will come of it”.

Recently, my mother passed away after I took care of her, 24/7, while she was in a state of deeply declining health. There were days when I felt it was more than I could bear, what with taking care of three children on top of it all, and homeschooling two of them.

Taking care of her, and seeing how little regard our society has for the elderly, made me terrified to grow old. I was not afraid to die; I was afraid to live a long life, if it meant nursing homes, a myriad of drugs, and unending pain.

In my own faith, I found answers to these questions that eventually come to all of us. I also found a rabbi in my religion who wrote an excellent book, at a time when he was himself going through the same age-related issues.

The book is entitled, “Ageing to Sageing–a New Look at Growing Older”. In it, he presents ways to see aging in a new, more positive light, and he draws upon the teachings of modern psychology as well as the Jewish Chasidic masters’ teachings.

So you see, if I had not had to take care of my mother, I never would have gotten to the point where I felt a need to reach out and learn a more positive way of viewing the reality of aging.

 

[SIA]

Sometimes God allows things to happen in our lives because He knows He will bring greater good from it. Your Catholic St Augustine even echoed this Jewish teaching when he said: “God allows suffering when He foresees that good will come of it”.

Recently, my mother passed away after I took care of her, 24/7, while she was in a state of deeply declining health. There were days when I felt it was more than I could bear, what with taking care of three children on top of it all, and homeschooling two of them.

Taking care of her, and seeing how little regard our society has for the elderly, made me terrified to grow old. I was not afraid to die; I was afraid to live a long life, if it meant nursing homes, a myriad of drugs, and unending pain.

In my own faith, I found answers to these questions that eventually come to all of us. I also found a rabbi in my religion who wrote an excellent book, at a time when he was himself going through the same age-related issues.

The book is entitled, “Ageing to Sageing–a New Look at Growing Older”. In it, he presents ways to see aging in a new, more positive light, and he draws upon the teachings of modern psychology as well as the Jewish Chasidic masters’ teachings.

So you see, if I had not had to take care of my mother, I never would have gotten to the point where I felt a need to reach out and learn a more positive way of viewing the reality of aging.

I certainly do agree that sometimes God allows things to happen to us for us to learn by it or for the greater good. I have seen this as well. My whole point was that God does not inflict us with pain to punish us for our sins or other reasons.

 

[ralphinal]

I certainly do agree that sometimes God allows things to happen to us for us to learn by it or for the greater good. I have seen this as well. My whole point was that God does not inflict us with pain to punish us for our sins or other reasons.

And I would agree that he does not inflict us with pain r any suffering

 

[Sam_777]

We also are taught that souls come into this world to serve a purpose, and once that purpose is served, they depart. This is why babies sometimes die before they are born…because they spent just enough time here to fulfill a certain purpose, which sometimes is known only to God.

A very good reason indeed, could you please till me which Jews source teaches that, and if there is any online link for that I would appreciate it.

 

[Sepharad]

Perhaps, but this is not my experience. When I am in the depths of depression I would give anything to feel God’s presence but I don’t. One of my most vivid memories of my time in the psych ward was the feeling of God’s total absence - not the slightest hint of comfort which would have made the situation so much more bearable. And please don’t tell me I wasn’t open or trying hard enough. We’re talking a mental disorder here that skews perception and often makes rational action impossible.

Have you ever read, Dark Night of the Soul by St John of the Cross? All religions have a term for this wilderness experience, when we feel God is far from us. But truthfully, He is always there, we just don’t always feel it.

 

[Sepharad]

A very good reason indeed, could you please till me which Jews source teaches that, and if there is any online link for that I would appreciate it.

That is a teaching from the Kabbalah. You can learn more about it in a book written for laymen: “The Soul of the Matter–A Jewish Kabbalistic Perspective on the Human Soul Before, During and After Life” by Gershon Winkler, c 1992, Judaica Press

I don’t know of any online sources; I do most of my studying offline, sorry!

 

[angeljeanr]

I’m sorry if i’m not following the thread, but i wanted to offer another reason for redemptive suffering. We know that God feels hurt and anger for the indifference and sometimes just plain lack of love for him, in some situations God has wanted to offer punishment to people for their sins and redemptive suffering by some people has been accepted by God as a way of calming his anger. I’m not very good at explaining things but i hope this helps.

 

[Sepharad]

I’m sorry if i’m not following the thread, but i wanted to offer another reason for redemptive suffering. We know that God feels hurt and anger for the indifference and sometimes just plain lack of love for him, in some situations God has wanted to offer punishment to people for their sins and redemptive suffering by some people has been accepted by God as a way of calming his anger. I’m not very good at explaining things but i hope this helps.

Contrary to what some have said, I agree with you, that sometimes God does send suffering as a punishment, but also, to give us a wake up call to areas of our lives which may not be pleasing to Him.

 

[mercygate]

Looking back on some of my own past suffering, I see that much good has come of it – I was not disposed at the time to see that or to accept it in a spirit either of submission or of offering it in union with Christ’s redemptive suffering. St. Paul’s claim to “complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church” never occurred to me.

Again, looking back, without that suffering, I would remain even more self-engulfed, self-important and self-righteous than I am now. That is a terrilfying thought.

 

[Sepharad]

Looking back on some of my own past suffering, I see that much good has come of it – I was not disposed at the time to see that or to accept it in a spirit either of submission or to offer it in union with Christ’s redemptive suffering. St. Paul’s claim to “complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”

Again, looking back, without that suffering, I would remain even more self-engulfed, self-important and self-righteous than I am now. That is a terrilfying thought.

I do firmly believe God works like that; in fact He has been doing it lately in my life a lot!

Your Saint Augustine even said, “God allows evil when He sees that good will come out of it”.