The question of staying for a short time at a significant other's home

[jonathanjlinn]

Firstly, I put this question up here as more of a means of discernment, I have not made up my mind on this issue, and as such expect all whom reply to this message to respect that notion and keep from banter and stick to well reasoned arguments to aid my spiritual journey. All posts that somehow make this issue seem trivial or less confusing than it really is will only hamper my ability to move forward in my faith, and most likely many others.

The question I pose:

Is it, or is it not a sin, or any degree, for myself (a guy) to sleep over at my girlfriend’s house under the following conditions (or her to sleep over at my house):

The stays last a few days (2-5) with 3 being the mode of the sample.
The sleeping occurs in separate rooms with at least one closed door in between.

The situation is as follows: we are transitioning into a long distance relationship and will both be beginning jobs shortly. The distance is 5 hours apart. We have no other option in terms of free lodging.

I’m purposefully leaving information out to keep the task on studying the theology.

The Theology:

The questions of sin arrives through 3 avenues:

1. Cohabitation
2. Near occasion of sin
3. Scandal

In order for this act to be considered sinful, one of the 3 situations above must be proved.

1. Cohabitation

Cohabitation is a vague notion, however we know that it implies a couple living together out of wedlock. That is, defrauding marriage.

:

• Any stay for any length not at a third party location (a relative or parent’s home) is cohabitation.

However, this seems absurd because when cohabitation is brought up it is always in the context of moving in together. Since she will have her own apartment 5 hours away. She is clearly not moving in with me.

Yet, the fact that she has an apartment may be irrelevant, since one could move in and still own their own separate apartment.

• There is a distinct difference between “living together” and “staying together”. Cohabitation implies living together (spending more time living under the same roof than not) while this is staying together (since the weekends together would function more as a vacation than an actual move, and she would be spending significantly more time living at her own home than she would be spending at mine.

I say, there are some indications that this could be considered cohabitation, yet taken that liberally, her visits to my parents home while I am there could also be considered as such, yet that seems absurd. Thus, I conclude that this is not cohabitation.

1. Near Occasion of Sin

From new advent:

“Occasions of Sin are external circumstances–whether of things or persons–which either because of their special nature or because of the frailty common to humanity or peculiar to some individual, incite or entice one to sin.”

• Is it true that when a couple spends the night under the same roof, that they tempt themselves to the point of near occasion of sin?

Absolutely not. For when we stay together at our parent’s houses, we are unsupervised as everyone else is asleep, yet our activities certainly do not become sinful, nor are we tempted to sin anymore than we are during the day when we are together.

Furthermore, near occasions of sin such as laying on the bed together are a choice that can occur outside of this particular situation and are “in addition to”, not “part of” her staying at my home. Staying with me implies we share a roof. All other acts are not “necessary pieces” of this puzzle.

Some may say that it is an occasion of sin because it could lead to these other occasions of sin more easily.

I say this is false because saying this is true is to say that staying at her parent’s house together is itself sinful, which is clearly absurd.

Therefore, I can not call this situation a near occasion of sin.

1. Scandal

Scandal is “an evil act that leads another to sin”

Therefore we must first ask the question as to whether or not this is an evil act.

If this is an evil act, even if just in appearance, than this is scandal.

It is hard to say if this is an evil act within itself. Certainly offering your girlfriend a place to stay is a good act, however placing her into a tempting situation is certainly not. Although this could be considered a tempting situation, so could many other situations, like closing the door to a room you are both in alone, yet we would not call these situations scandalous or evil.

Hence, this situation fails to meet the necessary conditions for being evil. Yet, what if we lower the standard for scandal and say that scandal is that act that will lead others to perdition.

In this case I ask the question “will other faithful be lead astray by us acting in this way”?

The answer seems most likely no. Firstly, if one is to find out about it, it would be by way of conversation. Since one always has the power to speak, one must describe the situation to others for them to know about it. In such a case one could easily take the extra step to avoid scandal by explaining the situation “separate rooms” “we abhor the idea of sleeping together before marriage” “respect the others space” “Cohabitation is a sin which we always avoid” “We don’t tempt ourselves with lying together and we part as soon as we become tired to the point of sleep”. (All would be true statements)

As such, this situation does not seem to meet the standard for scandal.

From these arguments I conclude that the situation is not sinful in itself. However, I will admit that it might not be the “perfect” setup either. Yet, by way of probabilism I conclude that it is moral okay.

Please argue against me to see if I (we) can’t discern the proper way with greater certainty.

 

[Gorgias]

Jonathan,

That’s a lovely rationalization that you’ve provided. I think that some of your arguments are relatively solid; that being said, I’m not certain I agree at all with your conclusions.

First off, to the notion of cohabitation: “living as brother and sister”, strictly speaking, is cohabitation, but is not sinful. So, as far as your argument goes, if you two are really living as brother and sister, then you’re in the clear. That being said… can you honestly say that you two are truly only acting like brother and sister during the times that you’re under a single roof? (Given your argument about laying on a bed together, I’m guessing the answer is “no” – clearly, there are moments where, if people happened to see you, they’d be pretty certain that you two weren’t brother and sister. So… with that in mind, are you really certain that you aren’t ‘cohabitating’, in some (sinful) sense of the word?

Secondly, with respect to the near occasion of sin: I think your arguments here are pretty weak. One argument seems to equivocate being in one another’s presence while at a parents’ home with being in one another’s presence alone at your own home. C’mon, now… do you really expect us to buy that one? The ‘near occasion of sin’ has to do with putting yourself in situations of temptation, not with what you do in those situations. So, if you are tempted while at your parents’ or during the day, but don’t act on those temptations, then bully for you! But don’t try to say that you aren’t tempted, in each of these situations… it just makes you look silly.

The other half of your argument here attempts to create a distinction between ‘living together’ and ‘the things you two do while living together’, such that ‘living together’ is OK. That distinction doesn’t seem to hold up. The ‘near occasion of sin’ is precisely all about the “unnecessary” things that happen “in addition”, when you put yourself in a situation that tempts you to sin! I think you would agree that entering a gentlemen’s club meets the definition of a ‘near occasion of sin’, wouldn’t you? So, if I said, “well, I went into the club simply to ask for a drink of water… anything that happened afterward, well… it wasn’t a necessary part of ‘drinking water’, so my walking into the strip club can’t be considered a ‘near occasion of sin’!!!” … well – you wouldn’t buy that argument, would you?

Finally, with respect to scandal. I think you’re defining ‘scandal’ too narrowly. Where are you getting your definition from? I looked at the CCC (see #2284ff): “Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of … the weakness of those who are scandalized.” In other words, if – by your actions – people see an example that leads them to believe that it’s ok for an unmarried couple to live together (even on a periodic basis), then yes, you’re committing scandal! (Now, if you two are truly chaste – not even transgressing the ‘brother and sister’ line – then there’s a certain question of how you might make this known, so that scandal does not reasonably result.) However, it certainly seems that, especially given the “weakness” of our current culture, you would be leading people to believe that you think it’s OK for you and your girlfriend to live together – and that’s the textbook definition of scandal!

So, for those keeping score at home:

1. cohabitation – maybe and maybe not, depending on your actions.
2. near occasion of sin – yes!
3. scandal – more than likely: yes!

Sorry… but I just can’t agree with your conclusions…

Blessings,

G.

 

[Della]

Just ask a nice matronly relative to stay with you as chaperone. It may sound old-fashioned, but having Aunt Tellie there to keep everything on the up and up couldn’t hurt.

 

[Delaine75]

I was always told that it is not a sin if you are together under the same roof “as brother and sister”… if you get my drift! Just living together with your significant other does not make it a sin, HOWEVER, it does make temptation greater, so do whatever is necessary to prevent falling into a sinful situation.

 

[beth40n2]

I also look at reputation. When I was dating my husband, he left one night at 10pm and left his car in my driveway. He took my car for the week to fix it as he is a mechanic. He lived 80 miles from me at the time we were dating. The next day I had several people ask me if he spent the night. I learned my lesson then, that we are being watched, and even though we do not sin, others can think that we have. So to save my own reputation, after that if he took my car, I just made it known ahead of time to several neighbors that he was taking my car again and you would see his parked here.

 

[thewanderer]

Ok first off… Cohabitation:

As I understand it, it is not cohabitation itself that is sinful, but instead it is made sinful by the three following factors

1. engaging in sinful activity
2. putting oneself in the proximate occasion of sin
3. causing scandal
   So I think you might have phrased this question the wrong way in so far as instead of cohabitation you need only have put “engaging in sin” which is apparantly not a part of this scenario. So yes, you’re in the clear here.

Next up, Near Occasion of Sin:

Ok, so I know you’re gonna get people telling you that no matter what you say about yourselves you are putting yourself in the near occasion of sin, but, trust me, I understand and recognize that that is not necessarily the case. Everybody has strangths and weaknesses, and for those couples where both people involved happen to be particularly strong in this area it is possible to stay together beffore marriage and not actually be putting oneself in the near occasion of sin. Having said that, I think there could be a few more factors involved than you have thought of. The first is that there might be more of a difference between your house and your parents house than you would think. In a parents house, even when they are asleep there is always the knowledge that one is not completely alone, the parents are only a room or two away, anything could happen, they could wake up in the middle of the night and hear something…well, awkward, which can, even subconciously, be a deterent. Also, in a parents house, even when the parents are not present, the knowledge that it one is in ones parents house can still be an extra deterent, I mean, come on, the thought of ‘doing it’ in the house of someone you respect and love and who you know would not approve can really have a detering effect, again, even almost subconsioucly. Neither of these deterents would be present at one of the couple’s houses/apartments. The other factor which could make a difference is the regularity of these stays. It is easier to let ones gaurd down when staying over becomes habitual, especially as the relationship progresses towards marriage. Because of all of these factors I would say that such a couple should re-examine themselves honestly thinking about the differences they might make to whether or not such an arrangement would become a near occasion of sin for them.

Finally, Scandal:

As has been noted, scandal need not be caused by an inherently evil act. All that is necessary is that others be led into sin because of their perception of your actions. The more of an example a person is the more important it is that they take steps to avoid scandal. For instance, when a known Catholic causes scandal it is much worse than an atheist. Think about it this way, if someone starts to believe that you and your girlfriend are sleeping together, not only will that reinforce the idea that “well, everybody’s doing it, so it must be ok”, it will also send the message of “Hey, look, even these good Catholics are doing it, I mean, come on, if even the Catholics are doing it now there’s no way it can be a problem anymore”. So it is very important to evaluate the extent to which scandal would be caused by ones girlfriend habitually staying at your house for multiple days unchaperoned. (again, the fact that this is to be a habitual arrangement must be taken into account at this point as it is more likely to be noticed and cause scandal)

Now, its important to note that for these last two, near occasion of sin and scandal, even when the chance of scandal/falling into sin is held constant, there can be other circumstances which make staying together either sinful or permissable. If there is truly some compelling necessity to stay together then one must do ones best to remove scandal, and reduce the occasion of sin, but it would not be sinful in itself to stay together even if under less compelling circumstances it would be. Because of this this situation is ultimately one that cannot have a strict yes or no answer. It depends on many particulars and circumstances not given here and which, to be honest, cannot be fully given over the internet. In such a case it would be wise for a couple to discuss this matter with a good priest/spiritual director to help them determine whether or not such a course of action would be permissable for them in their particular situation.