T
The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
Now I read your numerous posts about the rapture and found a lot of texts wrenched out of context.
Now I don’t know which “rapture” you believe in beit pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation.
But I have a few questions.
You’ll give me 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 as your proof-text:
"[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
[15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
And I say to you AMEN! I believe 100% of what scripture says here. I just don’t agree with your fallible interpretation of this scripture.
I ask you where does it say in any of those verses that after Jesus decends that He then returns to heaven?
And notice that there is a resurrection of the dead here. How do you explain that when you take into account these verses?:
John 6:
[40] For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
[44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:[20] When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary sat in the house.
[21] Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
[22] And even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”
[23] Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
[24] Martha said to him, **“I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” **
If there is a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture why does Jesus say that the resurection of the dead will happen on the Last Day?
And Matthew 24?
Mat 24:
[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[40] Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
[41] Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
[42] Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
And:
Luke 17:
[26] As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
[28]** Likewise as it was in the days of Lot **-- they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built,
[29] but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all –
[30] so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Notice Jesus is compairing His coming to the days of Noah and Lot.
Now in the days of Noah when the flood came who was taken?
The bad guys!
Who was left behind? Noah and his family.
In the days of Lot when Sodom was destroyed who was taken away?
The bad guys!
Who was left behind? Lot and his daughters!
So now that we understand that it is the “saved” that are left behind and the bad guys that are taken lets look again at 1 Thess 4:14-17;
[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
[15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left(or remain), shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
So if we interpret these verses correctly that the good guys were the ones left behind and the bad guys were taken away how can you say that there is a rapture of the Just?
If it is those who are left, or remain-those who are “left behind”-until the coming of the Lord who are saved how do you explain your interpretation “the rapture”?
Now I don’t know which “rapture” you believe in beit pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation.
But I have a few questions.
You’ll give me 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 as your proof-text:
"[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
[15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
And I say to you AMEN! I believe 100% of what scripture says here. I just don’t agree with your fallible interpretation of this scripture.
I ask you where does it say in any of those verses that after Jesus decends that He then returns to heaven?
And notice that there is a resurrection of the dead here. How do you explain that when you take into account these verses?:
John 6:
[40] For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
[44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:[20] When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary sat in the house.
[21] Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
[22] And even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”
[23] Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
[24] Martha said to him, **“I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” **
If there is a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture why does Jesus say that the resurection of the dead will happen on the Last Day?
And Matthew 24?
Mat 24:
[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[40] Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
[41] Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
[42] Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
And:
Luke 17:
[26] As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
[28]** Likewise as it was in the days of Lot **-- they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built,
[29] but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all –
[30] so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Notice Jesus is compairing His coming to the days of Noah and Lot.
Now in the days of Noah when the flood came who was taken?
The bad guys!
Who was left behind? Noah and his family.
In the days of Lot when Sodom was destroyed who was taken away?
The bad guys!
Who was left behind? Lot and his daughters!
So now that we understand that it is the “saved” that are left behind and the bad guys that are taken lets look again at 1 Thess 4:14-17;
[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
[15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left(or remain), shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
So if we interpret these verses correctly that the good guys were the ones left behind and the bad guys were taken away how can you say that there is a rapture of the Just?
If it is those who are left, or remain-those who are “left behind”-until the coming of the Lord who are saved how do you explain your interpretation “the rapture”?