The Rock Upon Which Christ Built His Church

[TaurusRex]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter

“Rock” dialogue[edit]
In a dialogue between Jesus and his disciples (Matthew 16:13-19), Jesus asks, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” The disciples give various answers. When he asks, “Who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answers, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus then declares:
“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter (Petros), and on this rock (petra) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Does that or does that not give to Saint Peter the Authority/Word of Christ in Heaven, on Earth and in His Church?
Has our Roman Catholic Church been changed since I was a boy being confirmed 57 years ago?

rex

 

[tonyrey]

The Church has developed but has not changed the teaching of Christ.

 

[Nelka]

The Church has developed but has not changed the teaching of Christ.

In the same way as I have developed into a better person since I got married but am still husband to the same wife.

 

[4love2God]

The OP asks** : “Does that or does that not give to Saint Peter the Authority/Word of Christ in Heaven, on Earth and in His Church?”**

You are asking us about something you read on Wikipedia?

First, I believe that it does NOT give Peter authority inside of Heaven.
God the Father is THE authority in Heaven.
Jesus (as part of the Trinity) is technically also God the Father (and the same for the Holy Spirit).

Second, I do NOT believe that it gives Peter the authority over all of the Earth.
God allows people to become Leaders … and these Leaders have authority over their domain.

And, finally, I truly believe that Peter (and his Successors) have authority over the Church.

 

[Gorgias]

First, I believe that it does NOT give Peter authority inside of Heaven.
God the Father is THE authority in Heaven.

True, but the claim is that, what Peter holds on earth will be held in heaven. Hence the claim. I don’t think that the claim is trying to assert that Peter is supreme or more authoritative than God.

Jesus (as part of the Trinity) is technically also God the Father (and the same for the Holy Spirit).

No. That would be a poor understanding of the Trinity. Jesus is not ‘technically’ the Father or the Spirit.

Second, I do NOT believe that it gives Peter the authority over all of the Earth.

Again, it gives Peter authority over the Church – over all the earth.

If a pope were to make a statement on faith and morals – one which applied to all… then it would apply to all!

 

[TaurusRex]

The OP asks** : “Does that or does that not give to Saint Peter the Authority/Word of Christ in Heaven, on Earth and in His Church?”**

You are asking us about something you read on Wikipedia?

First, I believe that it does NOT give Peter authority inside of Heaven.
God the Father is THE authority in Heaven.
Jesus (as part of the Trinity) is technically also God the Father (and the same for the Holy Spirit).

Second, I do NOT believe that it gives Peter the authority over all of the Earth.
God allows people to become Leaders … and these Leaders have authority over their domain.

And, finally, I truly believe that Peter (and his Successors) have authority over the Church.

As far as something I read on “wiki”, (i.e. a Bible quote (Matthew 16:13-19)), here are two other sources:

catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47&bible_chapter=16

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi he put this question to his disciples, ‘Who do people say the Son of man is?’
14 And they said, ‘Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.’
15 ‘But you,’ he said, ‘who do you say I am?’
16 Then Simon Peter spoke up and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’
17 Jesus replied, ‘Simon son of Jonah, you are a blessed man! Because it was no human agency that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven.
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’

usccb.org/bible/matthew/16/

13h When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi* he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14i They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,* others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16* j Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Pertaining to the meaning of “bind and loose”, (i.e. words used by Jesus to Simon/Peter), here are two sources for that also:

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-phrase-binding-and-loosing-as-mentioned-in-matthew-1619-and-matthew-181

Full Question
What does the phrase “binding and loosing,” as mentioned in Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 18:18, refer to?
Answer
“Binding and loosing” is a phrase which comes from the rabbis. It refers to the authority to make decisions binding on the people of God.
This authority includes interpreting and applying the Word of God and admitting people to and excommunicating them from the community of faith. For the Jews this meant the community of Israel. For Christians this means the Church.
In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives this authority over his Church to Peter: “Whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
In Matthew 18:18, he gives the power to all the apostles: “Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

gotquestions.org/binding-loosing.html

Question: “What does the Bible mean by binding and loosing?”

Answer: The concept of “binding and loosing” is taught in the Bible in Matthew 16:19: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” In this verse, Jesus is speaking directly to the apostle Peter and indirectly to the other apostles. Jesus’ words meant that Peter would have the right to enter the kingdom himself, that he would have general authority symbolized by the possession of the keys, and that preaching the gospel would be the means of opening the kingdom of heaven to all believers and shutting it against unbelievers. The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time. The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

PS:
Pertaining to Christ’s reference to “on Earth”, I’m sure, (i.e. imvho) He is referring His disciples to authority over His congregation of peoples/believers in His Church on Earth.

rex

_

 

[TimothyH]

Does that or does that not give to Saint Peter the Authority/Word of Christ in Heaven, on Earth and in His Church?

Yes, God honors Peters decisions. If Peter says, “Your sins are forgiven” then God will honor that and the person’s sins will be forgiven. If Peter says…

***“I have no silver and gold, but I give you what I have; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” *(Acts 3:6)

…then God will honor that and the man will walk.

And he took him by the right hand and raised him up; and immediately his feet and ankles were made strong. And leaping up he stood and walked and entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God. (Acts 3:7-8)

God has delegated his authority. God binds in heaven what Peter binds on earth.

It is the same with a priest at Mass. The priest calls down the Holy Spirit at the epiclesis and commands that the bread and wine become Jesus at the words of institution and it happens. God has delegated that much authority to the priest.

-Tim-

 

[tonyrey]

The Church has developed but has not changed the teaching of Christ.

Precisely!