The sense of self

  • Thread starter Thread starter STT
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

STT

Guest
I encountered to a very interesting TED talk. It is about a story of a woman who is a psychologist and had a stroke in left part of her brain. In this video, she explain how she lost her sense of self and how this affected her activities.

So the striking problem at least for me is that I always believed that the sense of self or Iness is a property of soul. Now I lost that belief too. So I am asking you that what is the use of soul since to me the sense of self was the only property that I could explain the need for soul.
 
Animals have a sense of self and consciousness. Obviously, then, consciousness must in many senses exist in the brain material and their collective working together, as does the sense and even imagination.

I wanted to recommend a couple of blog posts for reading:
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/08/animals-are-conscious-in-other-news-sky.html?m=1

edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/08/think-mcfly-think.html?m=1

It’s thinking in the sense of grasping universals and abstract thought that are not seen as explainable through materialist means.
 
The sense of self is continuously evolving in human life. There is none when life begins. We learn to infer it from our center of sensation and bodily needs.

The self is initially conterminous with the skin of the body. Later, one learns to equate oneself with the emotional or mental, or social being.

So no, I wouldn’t have a faith crisis over an instance where it fails.

ICXC NIKA
 
We obtain a sense of self through our interactions with the world. Materially we understand ourselves to be that which we can control, our limbs, mouth, bodily functions etc. and that which receives perceptions and has thoughts. We get a sense of who we are from our interactions with others. We differentiate ourselves from our mothers and families and see ourselves as reflected in their eyes. If you have attention deficits, chances are you will be yelled at a lot. While this is meant to guide the child to what is proper behaviour, these reactions can make us feel like there is something intrinsically wrong with us. As human persons, we need a physical body in order for this sense of self to exist. If you talk to people with Alzheimer’s they will frequently relate how they are no longer themselves. The spirit is aware of there being something wrong, although it may no longer have the capacity to think it out and express it. A not uncommon experience if you sleep during the day is to wake up not knowing who you are, where you are or when. That pattern of wakeful brain activity has remained dormant. That doesn’t mean you cease to exist. The long of it is very long; this is the very short of it.
 
Our material bodies are but instruments for our souls to experience this life that we live in this world (this material universe). If the brain is badly damaged though then it can often effect a person’s perception, as in this case with this woman’s perception of self. It is a matter of her damaged brain losing the ability to perceive those things, and not a matter of her soul.
If you lost your sight, for example, then would that mean there was no natural light or colors? No, they’re still there, your damaged body though has lost the ability to see those things. Similarly this woman who suffered brain damage has lost her ability to see herself as a “self”, the ability to perceive that thing.
Her soul is quite intact, and her sense of self will be quite intact again too in the life to come. 🙂
 
Wesrock said:
Animals have a sense of self and consciousness. Obviously, then, consciousness must in many senses exist in the brain material and their collective working together, as does the sense and even imagination.
Click to expand...
There are many theories about consciousness but there is no consensus on scientific community that which theory is correct. Many philosophers and scientists believe that we will never be able to understand consciousness. I also believe so for a simple reason:
  1. Intellect is faculties of consciousness
  2. We cannot understand phenomena which are in the same or higher level of complexity of our intellects
  3. This means that we cannot understand intellect
  4. This means that we cannot understand consciousness since intellect is faculty of consciousness
Wesrock said:
I wanted to recommend a couple of blog posts for reading:
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/08/animals-are-conscious-in-other-news-sky.html?m=1

edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/08/think-mcfly-think.html?m=1
Click to expand...
Thank you for the links.
Wesrock said:
It’s thinking in the sense of grasping universals and abstract thought that are not seen as explainable through materialist means.
Click to expand...
This is true. But this also applies to consciousness and most importantly mind/soul as well.
 
GEddie said:
The sense of self is continuously evolving in human life. There is none when life begins. We learn to infer it from our center of sensation and bodily needs.

The self is initially conterminous with the skin of the body. Later, one learns to equate oneself with the emotional or mental, or social being.

So no, I wouldn’t have a faith crisis over an instance where it fails.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
I think that is our awareness which continuously evolve by life. The sense of self is constant and is necessary for any action.
 
Aloysium said:
We obtain a sense of self through our interactions with the world. Materially we understand ourselves to be that which we can control, our limbs, mouth, bodily functions etc. and that which receives perceptions and has thoughts.
Click to expand...
We don’t obtain a sense of self through interaction with the environment. The sense of self is needed for any action as it is illustrated in the video. We all need the sense of self to suckle on nipple of our mothers.
Aloysium said:
We get a sense of who we are from our interactions with others. We differentiate ourselves from our mothers and families and see ourselves as reflected in their eyes.
Click to expand...
I believe that we need to become self-aware first in order to recognize other beings. We become self-aware through moving our bodies when we are infant.
Aloysium said:
If you have attention deficits, chances are you will be yelled at a lot. While this is meant to guide the child to what is proper behaviour, these reactions can make us feel like there is something intrinsically wrong with us. As human persons, we need a physical body in order for this sense of self to exist. If you talk to people with Alzheimer’s they will frequently relate how they are no longer themselves. The spirit is aware of there being something wrong, although it may no longer have the capacity to think it out and express it. A not uncommon experience if you sleep during the day is to wake up not knowing who you are, where you are or when. That pattern of wakeful brain activity has remained dormant. That doesn’t mean you cease to exist. The long of it is very long; this is the very short of it.
Click to expand...
I don’t know how spirit could think since it is spiritual and has no shape. Understanding to me is the result of activity of brain otherwise there was no need for brain process.
 
Nigel7 said:
Our material bodies are but instruments for our souls to experience this life that we live in this world (this material universe). If the brain is badly damaged though then it can often effect a person’s perception, as in this case with this woman’s perception of self. It is a matter of her damaged brain losing the ability to perceive those things, and not a matter of her soul.
Click to expand...
I think that the experience is the result of brain process otherwise there was no need for the process if the brain was only a mediator or tools.

Moreover, I think you need to explain what is the duty of brain and soul separately if you really think that they both collaborate in order to make us who we are.
Nigel7 said:
If you lost your sight, for example, then would that mean there was no natural light or colors? No, they’re still there, your damaged body though has lost the ability to see those things. Similarly this woman who suffered brain damage has lost her ability to see herself as a “self”, the ability to perceive that thing.
Her soul is quite intact, and her sense of self will be quite intact again too in the life to come. 🙂
Click to expand...
No, she lost her sense of self as she explain it in the video. She clearly mentioned in the starting of the video that the left brain is responsible for creating the sense of self.
 
STT said:
I think that the experience is the result of brain process otherwise there was no need for the process if the brain was only a mediator or tools.

Moreover, I think you need to explain what is the duty of brain and soul separately if you really think that they both collaborate in order to make us who we are.

No, she lost her sense of self as she explain it in the video. She clearly mentioned in the starting of the video that the left brain is responsible for creating the sense of self.
Click to expand...
To the extent that a “self” includes the solid body, it should be no surprise at all that the head of that body is involved in creating the “sense of self.”

ICXC NIKA
 
FYI - How sensations on one side of the body are mapped on the contralateral side of the brain:

View attachment 23516

A sense of self would include touch to help provide a body image in space. Balance, vision, feedback from muscles and other experiences of the body-in-the-world contribute to our sense of self. It is also a social construct related to emotions, memories of relationships, significant events, hopes, desires etc. All these are mental experiences, requiring a body (brain) to function and to exist at all, composing the person, a whole spiritual-physical unity in time and space.
 
The self, depending on how it’s defined, is merely an illusion that deserves die!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top