The Smoke of Satan

[John_19_59]

Anyone not convinced of the perilous state the Church is now in should read the thinking of some of our “Pastors”.

oltyn.com/fatmjan.htm

This is a summary of an “Inter-religious” conference held at Fatima.

It’s outrageous that Archbishops and other senior figures in the Catholic Church are going along with this nonsense.

This is apostasy!

Plain and simple.

The Catholic Church is being attacked from within. Some of our “leaders” are now proclaiming equality of religions.

The world is going mad - soon Catholics who cling to the dogmas of the Church will be persecuted - its already started in some places. Dare to speak up against homosexuality and you will get it. Dare to suggest that the Catholic Church is the one true religion and you will get it. Dare to criticise another persons religion and you will get it. Dare to question “womans rights” and you will get it.

The future is very bleak, but then that’s what Our Lord said it would be at some point. “Will he find faith on Earth?”

Well he wouldn’t find it at that conference in Fatima - but would he find it at the Vatican?

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

So long as Pope John Paul II is there there will be Faith, just pray that the Holy Spirit gives us as good a Pope as this one when he dies. Long Live the Holy Father!

 

[John_19_59]

I agree, the Pope needs our prayers.

But the Pope has got himself mixed up in this mess too. The inter-religious event at Assisi was a bad mistake.

The mission of the Church is to proclaim Jesus Christ to the nations, not to confirm other religions in their own beliefs which is what happened at Assisi.

The Holy Father failed the Church at Assisi - but pray for him.

Jesus Christ - first, last, always.

 

[padraig]

Saintly Pope John xxiii one time famously said, "Let us look for the things that unite us rather than those that divide us’.

He also said on meeting the Orthdox Patriarch, ‘This is my brother, Joseph!’

If we get in trouble for praying and talking to-gether we may as well just give up. Another thing the saintly Pontiff warned about was viewing the Church and the world in too negative a sense. Christ has won the Victory, this is just a mopping up operation!

 

[otm]

My understanding is that the publisher of your link is part of a schismatic group. You might want to try some different reading matter, for example, The National Catholic Register.

 

[John_19_59]

Re: If we get in trouble for praying and talking to-gether we may as well just give up.

With Muslims (who specifically deny Christ, his divinity and the salvation he offers)?, with Buddists?, Hindus and everyother false religion? Really?

I don’t believe that is the mission of the Church.

The mission of the Church is to make disciples of all nations - not OK-ing their false beliefs.

We are called to bear witness to the truth - who is Jesus Christ.

Inter-religious “dialogue” has weaked the faith of your average Catholic who now thinks that our faith is just another religion and as long as you are “good” then it doesn’t matter.

I know lots of Catholics - lapsed and not - who think like this.

The Church is failing in its mission.

It is a fact that the only people who have moved in “inter-religious” dialogue is the Catholic Church. Instead of drawing people to us we have moved away from our own Apostolic mission.

Christ asked if when he returned, would he find faith on Earth. What I see at the moment is a movement (within and without the Church) to have some kind of world religion where everyone agrees to be different and thats OK. And where maybe the Catholic Church is some kind of first among equals.

Well its not OK! That is not what Christ asked us to do. If it was he wouldn’t have bothered doing what he did.

 

[padraig]

You say, John,’That is not what Christ asked us to do’.
But is that so really? My own experience with folks is that the way to their hearts is through their hearts, not their heads. There is nothing so attractive to people as simple holiness. Christ draws people to Himself. When we become like Christ people want to become like us. Arging with them. Preaching at them. Telling them where they’re going wrong has only limited value.

But loving them, being with them in friendship. Joining them in prayer, ah these are the keys of love that open many hearts! And who knows? Maybe we will have a thing or two to learn ourselves!
Maybe even further we may find our own hearst wil open a bit more, teaching us a bit of humility Jesus said, "In my Fathers house there are many mansions’, well maybe not a few of them will be Moslem, Buddhists and what not!

At the minute our Holy Father John Paul ii lies gravely ill in the Gemelli Hospital in Rome, a great saint and martyr, possibly dying, certainly in great pain. It causes me some concern, John, that you should choose this particular moment to publically attack him. At best it shows bad taste…at worst…well…

 

[John_19_59]

Padraig,

A hard saying from Our Lord…

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Nothing “touchy-feely” there!

The mission of the Church as given by Our Lord…

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.

A hard saying from St Paul…

I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!

There is no place for false gospels and false religion.

Praying “with” Muslims and the like confirms them in their false religion.

Preaching to them the true Gospel is the duty of the Church.

I am praying for John Paul II - Lord have mercy on him, help him and guide him (and all of us). Gods will be done.

But Assisi was a mistake by him.

Some areas of the Church are in deep crisis and on the verge of apostacy and it happened on his watch.

I don’t know how much he could have (still could?) done/do about it, I hope his hands were tied.

Whatever - the Vatican seems to have abandoned the mission entrusted to them by Our Lord and are following a quest for some kind of universal brotherhood of religions.

This is an abandonment of its divine mission - and it’s apostacy.

You can’t pray with someone who is praying to a false God.

 

[padraig]

You sound just like my father, John who would be agreeing and cheering you on 100% in all you say. I listened to him about all these things…
My parents used to have the Tridentine Mass in the house and my da used to consider vatican ii a real witches brew, as I suspect a little you would John! Anyway it was fair enough, I suppose, for we are all entitled to our opinions and he was good and sincere in my beliefs. But things got worse. The priests saying the mass had no permission from the Bishop and they began saying the Pope was a heretic and that the new order of the mass was false and the host in them wasn’t really consecrated in it, ect, ect…
Well one day I had one of my regular arguments struck home when I called him a Protestant for rejecting the authority of the Holy Father. His face turned all kinds of funny colours, but he changed his ways. He later told me he was very lucky he didn’t travel further down that road or he would have ended up in a sticky wicket!

All this religious politiking is a waste of time. If you’ve any complaints about our Holy Mother the Church or our saintly Holy Father then take them to Our Dear Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.The Holy Father is our Shepherd, we the little and Obedient sheep. God gave Him to us to lead, instruct, guide, advise and encourage. Do what our foreparents in the faith have always done, listen and follow. All else is just a dangerous distraction. Life is just too short; the enemies of the Church too dangerous for anything else. Pray, trust, be a good obedient child of the Church and you will find peace!

 

[John_19_59]

The Holy Father is our Shepherd, we the little and Obedient sheep.

Cosy, but misguided.

God gave Him to us to lead, instruct, guide, advise and encourage. Do what our foreparents in the faith have always done, listen and follow.

You need to read some Church history methinks.
We have had some interesting Popes down the centuries - blind obedience would have been a sin on occasion.
Our obedience only goes as far as matters guaranteed by the Holy Spirit.
Paul corrected Peter when it was necessary.
Popes HAVE been corrected in the past.
To believe that everything the Pope does and says is infallible is not the correct understanding of infallibilty.
Popes are human and do make mistakes when acting outside the boundary of infallibilty.

*All else is just a dangerous distraction. Life is just too short; the enemies of the Church too dangerous for anything else. *

The Church has enemies without AND within - the most dangerous are within.

Pray, trust, be a good obedient child of the Church and you will find peace

For your information I attend Novus Ordo Mass, I haven’t been to a Latin Mass since the mid/late 1960’s.
I don’t have an issue with Vatican II as such (except for possibly some deliberate ambiguity in some documents) - it didn’t define new dogmas, but I do have problems with the aftermath and “the spirit of Vatican II”.
Look around, the Church is in a bad state.

It is my belief that Fatima with its confirmation of traditional Catholic dogma is being deliberately pushed aside by modernists within the Church who have no time for Catholic dogma of the past.

The clearest sign for me is the respect we are paying to false religion. The Pope kissed the Koran a few years ago.
This book expressly states that Jesus is not divine and did not die on the cross, did not rise from the dead and is not the source of mankinds salvation.

Another bad mistake by the Pope - along with Assisi.

Our mission is to bring Jesus Christ to the nations - not tell other religions how great they are.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

One of the most effective weapons of satan is to divide. The minute a person becomes disallusioned with the Majesterium, it is a rocky road that soul travels from that point on.

No not all religions are equal, but all people are brothers and sisters in, by and through Christ Jesus and as such we have to respect what they believe even if it is not the truth, we have to spread the truth but we cannot hate, persecute nor dislike people because of what they believe.

Pope John Paul II has done more than any other Pope to bring about dialogue between different belief systems, whereas in the past we were at war with them. It is far better to talk and in that find a peaceful existence between people’s than to live at odds where we are neither brother nor sister to anyone outside of Christ’s church.

You must pray for unity of faith as Christ Jesus did before His death and ressurection. You must trust in God’s plan of salvation that He desires no soul to be lost and pray for conversions of faith to Catholicism.

We do not make peace and win souls for Jesus Christ by condemning everyone. We make peace by being peacful ourselves, being a living example of the Gospel and when opportunity arises witnessing to the |One True Catholic Faith

Your zeal is a great gift of grace, your enthusiasm though may cloud the very thing that Christ Jesus is…MERCY and LOVE. Though people err, though people sin, though people do not follow all of the laws, though people struggle to submit their will to God’s , though people are misinformed, though people are full of pride, though people are pigheaded, all of those people are loved by God and Jesus is most merciful to all of us.

Don’t worry about the church, it cannot fail and fall to ashes, Christ Jesus has said so…He doesn’t lie you know!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[John_19_59]

You are confusing the teaching authority of the Catholic Church guaranteed by the Holy Spirit with other actions that are not.

Not everything the Vatican does has divine sanction.
Not everything the Pope says is infallible.
He is infallible only when he says he is infallible.

How can we be brothers and sisters of other religions that are fundementally anti-Christ - like the Muslim religion.

The two can not live together - they are opposites.

One or the other is a lie - there is no in between.

We should not be describing them as great religions. We should not be kissing the Koran. We should be telling them that their religion is false and ours is true. We should be trying to make disciples of them.
I’m not saying anything extraordinary - it’s the mission of the Church.

The rise of false religion is one of the signs we are told to watch for. Yes the Church will prevail as Christ said, but he also said, and St Paul, that there would be persecution and apostacy before the end.

He didn’t say how big the prevailing Church will be, but “will he find faith on Earth” suggests it won’t be that big.

That doesn’t sound very cheery does it.

The good news is that Mary promised at Fatima that Russia will be converted (yet to happen), there will be a period of peace (yet to happen). Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. So the end is perhaps not just yet.

But the Vatican is full of people who hold some very un-Catholic views - wolves in sheeps clothing - we have to be wary.

God bless, guide and protect our Pope.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

John_19_59:

You are confusing the teaching authority of the Catholic Church guaranteed by the Holy Spirit with other actions that are not.

Not everything the Vatican does has divine sanction.
Not everything the Pope says is infallible.
He is infallible only when he says he is infallible.

How can we be brothers and sisters of other religions that are fundementally anti-Christ - like the Muslim religion.

The two can not live together - they are opposites.

One or the other is a lie - there is no in between.

We should not be describing them as great religions. We should not be kissing the Koran. We should be telling them that their religion is false and ours is true. We should be trying to make disciples of them.
I’m not saying anything extraordinary - it’s the mission of the Church.

The rise of false religion is one of the signs we are told to watch for. Yes the Church will prevail as Christ said, but he also said, and St Paul, that there would be persecution and apostacy before the end.

He didn’t say how big the prevailing Church will be, but “will he find faith on Earth” suggests it won’t be that big.

That doesn’t sound very cheery does it.

The good news is that Mary promised at Fatima that Russia will be converted (yet to happen), there will be a period of peace (yet to happen). Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. So the end is perhaps not just yet.

But the Vatican is full of people who hold some very un-Catholic views - wolves in sheeps clothing - we have to be wary.

God bless, guide and protect our Pope.

The Vatican document ***Dominus Iesus ***clearly asserts the supremacy of the Catholic faith, and all others are to be considered “ecclesiastical communities”.

 

[springbreeze]

John_19_59:

You are confusing the teaching authority of the Catholic Church guaranteed by the Holy Spirit with other actions that are not.

Not everything the Vatican does has divine sanction.
Not everything the Pope says is infallible.
He is infallible only when he says he is infallible.

How can we be brothers and sisters of other religions that are fundementally anti-Christ - like the Muslim religion.

The two can not live together - they are opposites.

One or the other is a lie - there is no in between.

We should not be describing them as great religions. We should not be kissing the Koran. We should be telling them that their religion is false and ours is true. We should be trying to make disciples of them.
I’m not saying anything extraordinary - it’s the mission of the Church.

The rise of false religion is one of the signs we are told to watch for. Yes the Church will prevail as Christ said, but he also said, and St Paul, that there would be persecution and apostacy before the end.

He didn’t say how big the prevailing Church will be, but “will he find faith on Earth” suggests it won’t be that big.

That doesn’t sound very cheery does it.

The good news is that Mary promised at Fatima that Russia will be converted (yet to happen), there will be a period of peace (yet to happen). Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. So the end is perhaps not just yet.

But the Vatican is full of people who hold some very un-Catholic views - wolves in sheeps clothing - we have to be wary.

God bless, guide and protect our Pope.

Dear friend

On one hand you glorify the Catholic church and on the other hand you smite it, which shall it be?

Nothing on this earth is perfect in entirety, everything and everyone has error or there would be no sin. Yes there have been corrupt Pope’s yes the church has erred in the past, but there are infallibale doctrines and dogma’s in the church or would you then assert that the Holy Spirit can err? No of course not, so the dogmas and doctrines of the church do not err…ever!

How can we be brothers and sisters of other religions that are fundementally anti-Christ - like the Muslim religion.

Do you remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? Who is your neighbour, who then is your brother and your sister? You also need to understand that Muslims are not anti-Christ, they do honour Christ Jesus though they do not believe He is God as we do, this makes them ignorant, misinformed and in need of evangelisation, this does not make them an anti-Christ.

There are far too many people presently worrying about the end of the world, far too many people prophesying about it as if Jesus speaks directly to them…maybe He does , more probably He doesn’t. Yes these times are turbulent, these are times of great sin and great fear, times of oppression and death, not times of life. But these times will pass and all thing are passing, so there is no need to worry or over preoccupy yourself with any prophecy, proven or unproven by the church, because dear friend, the deposit of the faith is the full revelation of Christ Jesus. Anyone with any common sense can read the signs of the times and know we need to improve greatly and great offences are being committed against God without any sign from heaven to say so!!! Look at abortion alone and you can see that for yourself!! You are overly preoccupied, I suggest you rather should steep yourself in the deposit of faith and rather think about your own end time, your own death, because this is what is more likely to come first before anything else!!

What is more worrying to me is that you would set yourself up as holding more understanding and spirituality than the Majesterium of the Catholic Church

OBEDIENCE is everything…self (self opinion) is NOTHING

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[John_19_59]

You also need to understand that Muslims are not anti-Christ, they do honour Christ Jesus though they do not believe He is God as we do, this makes them ignorant, misinformed and in need of evangelisation, this does not make them an anti-Christ.

You confuse “they” and “it”.

The Muslim religion is anti-Christ. The Muslim people are God’s lost sheep who need conversion.

Either the Angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammed and dictated the Koran or he didn’t. There is no in-between. If he didn’t then the Islam is a hideous lie that comes from the father of lies. We should not under any circumstances be giving credence to any aspect of the Islamic religion or any other religion that proclaims “the truth” but contradicts Catholic teaching.

The Pope kissed the Koran - bad mistake. The Koran is a lie. (Christ didn’t die on the cross - someone else did after God changed their faces - read it).

As for “obedience” - I suggest that even you may have struggled with obedience to the Borgia and Medici Popes.

There are limits on our obedience - thank God.

The Vatican can be wrong in matters that are not guarded by the Holy Spirit. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

John_19_59:

Anyone not convinced of the perilous state the Church is now in should read the thinking of some of our “Pastors”.

oltyn.com/fatmjan.htm

This is a summary of an “Inter-religious” conference held at Fatima.

It’s outrageous that Archbishops and other senior figures in the Catholic Church are going along with this nonsense.

This is apostasy!

Plain and simple.

The Catholic Church is being attacked from within. Some of our “leaders” are now proclaiming equality of religions.

The world is going mad - soon Catholics who cling to the dogmas of the Church will be persecuted - its already started in some places. Dare to speak up against homosexuality and you will get it. Dare to suggest that the Catholic Church is the one true religion and you will get it. Dare to criticise another persons religion and you will get it. Dare to question “womans rights” and you will get it.

The future is very bleak, but then that’s what Our Lord said it would be at some point. “Will he find faith on Earth?”

Well he wouldn’t find it at that conference in Fatima - but would he find it at the Vatican?

This is nothing new, the evil one will always do his best to destroy the Church. Remember that Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against her. :yup:
We faced severe persecution for the first few 100 years, maybe we’ll see this more & more as we near the end.
“As it was in the beginning…”

 

[springbreeze]

You also need to understand that Muslims are not anti-Christ, they do honour Christ Jesus though they do not believe He is God as we do, this makes them ignorant, misinformed and in need of evangelisation, this does not make them an anti-Christ.

You confuse “they” and “it”.

The Muslim religion is anti-Christ. The Muslim people are God’s lost sheep who need conversion.

Either the Angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammed and dictated the Koran or he didn’t. There is no in-between. If he didn’t then the Islam is a hideous lie that comes from the father of lies. We should not under any circumstances be giving credence to any aspect of the Islamic religion or any other religion that proclaims “the truth” but contradicts Catholic teaching.

The Pope kissed the Koran - bad mistake. The Koran is a lie. (Christ didn’t die on the cross - someone else did after God changed their faces - read it).

As for “obedience” - I suggest that even you may have struggled with obedience to the Borgia and Medici Popes.

There are limits on our obedience - thank God.

The Vatican can be wrong in matters that are not guarded by the Holy Spirit. It’s as simple as that.

Dear friend

It is fact and undisputable that if you follow and are obedient to the precepts of the church, keep the seven Sacraments and love God and love your neighbour (that is all peoples) as yourself and try and do this everyday of your life then you have everything and will have done everything to strive in Christ Jesus for eternal life. Move away from any of the forementioned and we will have moved away from the promises of Christ.

There is no person alive who has not struggled with obedience to God, otherwise there would be no sin at all, but it is the desire, the joining of our will with God’s Holy Will and we must always remain penitent.

There is an old saying that if we point one finger at another and accuse them of their sins, we must then point three fingers at ourselves.

Yes the Pope did kiss the Koran, do you know why he did that? You do not know why he did it, I trust that his motivation for doing this was for a good and valid reason not merely to condone the Koran, but something far deeper and much more far reaching than this. Without all the facts of why the Pope did this I would not condemn him nor his actions. To leap to condemnation is not the spirit of Christ Jesus, first we must see the good in others and I am absolutely sure that the Pope had a good and holy reason for making that action. Our Pope is not given to being impetuous nor making false displays of affection, he is most prudent, therefore being in possession of all of the virtues, we need to trust that he made a decision to do this for good reasons and in his wisdom he did not err but is seeing a great good in his conversation with other faiths, this including muslims.

You either have an axe to grind or you are deeply troubled and confused over matters. If it is the former no matter what anyone says to you, you will be bent on grinding your axe, if it is the latter then you need to speak to a holy and devout Priest and discuss thoroughly the issues you are struggling to resolve regarding the church and the Papacy.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[John_19_59]

Teresa,

The Pope is not perfect and is capable of error except under certain circumstances.

The Pope made a mistake at Assisi, the Pope made a mistake with the Koran.

The Catholic Church is the one true religion as given by Our Lord. We should be proclaiming and coverting people to it - the mission entrusted to it - instead of trying to find common ground with religions which are explicitly anti-Christ.

The Gospels speak of an apostasy before the end. The Gospels also tell us to be awake at all times, the end could be now or in millions of years time. But it COULD be now. Stay awake. This “common brotherhood of religions” that is being persued is not the mission of the Catholic Church, it is more the goal of other humanist organisations that seem to have got a foothold inside the Church.

You say Christ does not condemn - but that is true only if you selectively read the Gospels - he was very condemning of religious leaders who lead people astray - as was St Paul.

Our Lady at Fatima said that “In Portugal the dogma of faith will always be preserved…” the rest was left unsaid by Lucia because it concerned the Third Secret. The implication here is that elsewhere the dogma of faith would not be preserved. When I look at the Church and where some of its leaders seem to be heading I see this prophecy coming true. Some of our leaders are heretics.

Yes Our Lord said the Church would prevail - he didn’t say it how big it would be. In fact he hinted that it would be difficult to find faith on Earth when he returned.
Catholic dogmatic teaching is the anchor of our faith. Anything that contradicts the teaching are to be avoided. Since Vatican II, many of our leaders have abandoned dogma in the “spirit” of Vatican II. The smoke of Satan has indeed entered the Church.

But I suspect the Masons are quite happy.

Pray for the Pope.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of virgins and tender Mother of men. Help us.