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tonyrey
Guest
What are the reasons for believing Jesus is both human and divine?
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cena
Guest
There is a lot of biblical evidence for it. When he claimed to be the Messiah from a prophecy (I think it was Isaiah) the people from his town were questioning him and they said stuff like “is this not the son of Mary and Joseph?” So they didn’t think there was anything special about him.
John 6
41 - The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
42 - And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven?
In the Old Testament God is referred to as YHWH or “I AM”
There was a part in the New Testament where Jesus said 'before Abraham was I AM"
John 8
57 - The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 - Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.
Also, he performed miracles confirming what he said was true. He stopped a storm by willing it to stop, not praying to by praying to God to stop it.
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tonyrey
Guest
Good points! The fact that everyone knew Jesus is incontrovertible evidence that He was human. And the fact that He "rebuked the wind and said to the sea, “Hush, be still” is very unlikely to have been invented. People generally associate miracles with prayer, not direct commands to the elements.
The incident in the Temple is also evidence of His remarkable courage, sincerity and wisdom. He had said to the Pharisees with irrefutable logic:
This was soon after He had said to them when they about to stone the woman taken in adultery: “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her”! They cannot accuse Him of having sinned so they resort to saying He is possessed:
To condemn the Pharisees as children of the devil and liars in front of the ordinary people in the Temple is not the stuff of fiction. It demonstrates that Jesus was not afraid to tell the truth regardless of the consequences - which, as He knew full well, were to be His arrest and crucifixion.
The irony is complete. Once again the sinners are about to cast stones and kill another person who doesn’t deserve to die. Jesus has identified Himself with all those who have been punished and executed unjustly by self-righteous hypocrites who exploit the poor and kill those who condemn them:
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tonyrey
Guest
The historical role of Jesus was predicted by the prophets and He in turn predicted the outcome of His mission, not only His own crucifixion but also the deaths of the martyrs who were to follow Him, the destruction of the Temple and the Diaspora. Even the unique history of the Jews since then culminating with the Holocaust demonstrates that the Chosen People embody the constant warfare between good and evil. They have persecuted others but they too have been persecuted to an unbelievable extent.
Both the antiChrist and antiSemitism are undeniable facts that require explanation. Why has there been so much irrational hatred of one particular race and one particular man?
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Servant19
Guest
What is the full Catholic meaning of the word “divine”?
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Auntie_A
Guest
He died on the cross for the accusation of stating He was the Son of God. He wasn’t stealing bread or beating up someone. He was preaching His Gospel and was arrested for it. He was either Divine or He was an idiotic madman…and idiotic madmen don’t influence millions of people to change and seek peace. Nor do they succeed at miracles, especially the Resurrection.
Proof enough for me.
Proof enough for me.
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tonyrey
Guest
And me!
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tonyrey
Guest
The word comes from late Middle English: via Old French from Latin divinus, from divus ‘godlike’ (related to deus 'god’). oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/divine
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Servant19
Guest
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tonyrey
Guest
The Church teaches that Jesus is God!
In the Nicene Creed we say:
For Christians God is a Community united by love. If the Creator were one Person existing in “spendid isolation” He would be the apotheosis of egoism!
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Jerurussia
Guest
As one inculcated into the “New Math” and expert in Venn diagrams but not skilled with actual calculations, the best foundation for Jesus Christ as fully God and fully Man–delighting as He did in titling Himself “Son of Man,”–is the primal revelation that mankind alone, not any angel or any animal, was made in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, for God to Incarnate as Christ did creates a compatible, cogent subset revealing the unity with divinity as the marital unity with divinity of the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit; and the unity with divinity in our final marriage of the Church to the Bridegroom upon His return; and the unity with divinity Christ ardently desires for all in His praying that Christians, the Messianic Jews of the New & Eternal Covenant, would be as united in Christ as Christ is with Abba, our Father. SELAH!
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tonyrey
Guest
Good points - but there is no evidence that mankind alone is made in the image of God and destined to be united in Christ:John 10:16
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Servant19
Guest
So the Church does not really teach “divinity” as per the definitions given, correct?The Church teaches that Jesus is God!
In the Nicene Creed we say:
For Christians God is a Community united by love. If the Creator were one Person existing in “spendid isolation” He would be the apotheosis of egoism!
“Of” God is not the same as “IS” God…
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cena
Guest
Jesus is GodSo the Church does not really teach “divinity” as per the definitions given, correct?
“Of” God is not the same as “IS” God…
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John_Martin
Guest
We say that God is God.
And if you were to ask, “Who is God?” we would say, “Jesus is the One God” and again we would say, “The Father is the One God”, and again we would say, “The Holy Spirit is the One God”.
And we would say, “There is only One God, One Divine Essence, One Divine Being”.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are relationships in God due to the facts that he knows himself and loves himself. And the self he knows loves him back. But you would probably have to study someone like Thomas Aquinas to make full sense of that. And you would need to take Jesus at his word at face value to know that this is true.
And if you were to ask, “Who is God?” we would say, “Jesus is the One God” and again we would say, “The Father is the One God”, and again we would say, “The Holy Spirit is the One God”.
And we would say, “There is only One God, One Divine Essence, One Divine Being”.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are relationships in God due to the facts that he knows himself and loves himself. And the self he knows loves him back. But you would probably have to study someone like Thomas Aquinas to make full sense of that. And you would need to take Jesus at his word at face value to know that this is true.
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tonyrey
Guest
The Son of God and God the Father are one and the same Being because They co-exist eternally and are totally united by perfect love. It is understandable that we cannot **fully **understand the divine nature. Those who claim to define God precisely overestimate their intelligence because human definitions impose limits on His infinite wisdom, power and love. All the terms we use are analogous and imperfect but they guide us towards the truth because Jesus has given us insight into the divine nature through His example and teaching. Love is the highest form of knowledge.
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