The Spanish Inquisition, The Reformation, etc

[The_Holy_War_11]

I don’t know if this is the right forum to post this but here it goes…

What do you all think about the Catholic Church’s actions during the Protestant revolution? Were we right to kill all those people?

What do you all think about the Spanish Inquisition? Were we right to torture and murder all of those people like we did?

Finally, what do I say to a Protestant who’s only problems with the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, is the murders, and the torturing of all those people?

Since the Church is infallible, were we under guidence of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Bookcat]

MUCH myth surrounds such …particularly about the Spanish Inquisition.

(Heck prisoners in the secular jails would blaspheme to get transferred to the courts of the inquisition for they were treated more humanly…MUCH is fiction that one finds about the SI)

Oh and Protestants were involved in various things like putting people to death as well…and burning of witches and whatnot (Catholic inquisitors would often take a look at those accuse of witchcraft and dismissed the cases…as unfounded)

 

[Bookcat]

Any actual mistakes or sins of members of the Church – where that.

Such would in no way mean that the Church per se was not guided by the Holy Spirit …any more than the sin of Judas meant the other Apostles were not guided by the Holy Spirit.

(PS: and infallibility has to do with doctrine…not actions of members)

 

[Elizium23]

Infallibility means that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals. The Magisterium and the Holy Father are protected from error and have never made an erroneous ex cathedra or de fide statement.

Impeccability means that someone is protected from sin. The only impeccable persons to ever live were Jesus Christ and Mary, the Mother of God. All other humans, and all human organizations including the Church, have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory. However, the Gates of Hell shall never prevail over the Church: this is the promise Christ gave us until the end of time.

 

[Joe_5859]

First, take a step back and investigate these historical claims. Misinformation abounds.

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

Thanks everybody! I am five months into the Church so I have lot to learn.

 

[sedonaman]

Thanks everybody! I am five months into the Church so I have lot to learn.

You might try this paper by the Catholic League. catholicleague.org/the-black-legend-the-spanish-inquisition/

I’m sure the League has a similar work on the Reformation.

 

[asd72]

There have been regrettable things happen and Bl John Paul made a lot of apologies on behalf of the Church. But there is a lot of misinformation and exaggeration out there.

Hopefully someone will have some recommended sources to get a balanced picture, that doesn’t whitewash the truth, but doesn’t over-exaggerate it either.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks everybody! I am five months into the Church so I have lot to learn.

Congrats!

Whenever someone throws out a “Gotcha!” type tidbit of information, it’s always a good idea to ask them where specifically they are getting this information. “Everyone knows that” is not a sufficient explanation.

This isn’t just to shift the burden of proof back to where it belongs (although that is also a good reason). It is simply impossible to concretely respond to ambiguous, nebulous accusations.

 

[1ke]

What do you all think about the Catholic Church’s actions during the Protestant revolution?

To what actions do you refer? You will have to be more specific.

Were we right to kill all those people?

Who is “we” and what people did we kill?

What do you all think about the Spanish Inquisition?

Which aspect Inquisition and what years? The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition in Spain was established in 1480 and abolished in 1834. That is a lot of territory to be talking about.

Were we right to torture and murder all of those people like we did?

Again, who is “we”? The Church? The Church did not murder “all those people”. By the way, define “all those people”.

Finally, what do I say to a Protestant who’s only problems with the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, is the murders, and the torturing of all those people?

I say that they need to learn more about the subject because they don’t know what they are talking about. I’m not trying to be flip above, I’m trying to point out that what people call “the Inquisition” is something they know NOTHING about.

I can recommend som books:

The Inquisition: A Political and Military Study of Its Establishment by Nickerson and Belloc
Isabella of Spain by Warren Carroll
The History of Christendom series by Warren Carroll particularly the Glory of Christendom and the Cleaving of Christendom

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

For instance, the Waldensians. Why did the Church kill them? Or have I just been lied to?

 

[Armyvet007]

For instance, the Waldensians. Why did the Church kill them? Or have I just been lied to?

French soldiers raised by the King of France killed them for French secular interests [one reason being that heresy was considered a crime against the state].

 

[Tantum_ergo]

For instance, the Waldensians. Why did the Church kill them? Or have I just been lied to?

The Church as in who? What is the context?

Let’s move to a more recent event. . .the Salem witch trials.

Did the Puritan Church kill the supposed witches?

How about Africans who killed missionaries or other Africans of different tribes because their religious leaders thought they brought ‘bad’ spirits? Was it the "African religions’ who killed those people?

How about going back to say right around AD 1200 and various conflicts involving Orthodox Christians and Latin Christians. Was it the Orthodox Church which caused the killing, or was it the Latin Church?

Any time you hear that a RELIGION or a COUNTRY or an ADMINISTRATION or some kind of OLOGY ‘killed people’ you can be pretty darn sure that those bringing up the argument have no real idea of the situation, the ‘groups’ involved, etc. but are simply trying to ‘smear’ one group to negate any positive efforts of that group, or to try to negate its current effects by proclaiming that its past has undermined its ‘goodness’ to the point of extinction. IOW, they aren’t really trying to have a dialogue or to understand what happened; they have an agenda themselves or they are (often unwittingly) being pulled into supporting the agenda of others.

 

[1ke]

For instance, the Waldensians.

Were not Spanish. They were French, from the Piedmont. “Spain”, as a country, did not exist for almost 400 years from the time of the beginning of the Waldensians. The King of Aragon did expel them from his Kingdom in the 1100s as they gained a foothold in that region, and King Pedro II instituted capital punishment against them. These actions predate the Holy Office in Spain by 400 years.

Why did the Church kill them?

The Church did not kill them. Several French monarch and Dukes did execute members of the sect for treason/sedition at various times over the course of sevearl hundred years. The truth is much more complex than “the Church killed them.” The complex interplay between secular and ecclesial, between orthodox and heterodox, and the entire concept of monarchy and authority are so different during that time period. One must, above all, understand the politics of the time.

Or have I just been lied to?

Apparently.

Here is a good article:

newadvent.org/cathen/15527b.htm

 

[Ubenedictus]

From what i gather, though the not every thing that happened in the inquisition was the popes idea, they seem to be acting on a popular teaching of the church. It seems the church taught that the heretics should die. I guess someone will correct me if im wrong.
Ubenedictus

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

Thanks everybody! I am five months into the Church so I have lot to learn.

Wait wait wait sorry I worded loosely! I converted to the Catholic Church in January, but I am not baptized or confirmed. Though I indeed am in love with the Church.

 

[sw85]

I don’t know if this is the right forum to post this but here it goes…

What do you all think about the Catholic Church’s actions during the Protestant revolution? Were we right to kill all those people?

What do you all think about the Spanish Inquisition? Were we right to torture and murder all of those people like we did?

Finally, what do I say to a Protestant who’s only problems with the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, is the murders, and the torturing of all those people?

Since the Church is infallible, were we under guidence of the Holy Spirit?

Can I ask when you quit beating your wife?

 

[Ubenedictus]

From what i gather, though the not every thing that happened in the inquisition was the popes idea, they seem to be acting on a popular teaching of the church. It seems the church taught that the heretics should die. I guess someone will correct me if im wrong.
Ubenedictus

and here come the big question, if they were acting on the church teaching that it is moral and even encouraged to kill heretic then how can catholic say that they have a church that never teach error? Any ideas?
Ubenedictus