The spirit of Catholicism

[tealblue]

I recently came across a book at a library used book sale called the spirit of Catholicism by Karl Adams. The book was written in the 1930’s which predates the second vatican by 30 years. It goes in great depth of Catholic techings. It has a section in it that explains what is meant by " No salvation outside the church.’ My neighbor left the church because they taught that ALL non Catholics were going to hell. Well the book I read expalins this doctrine the same way that vatican 2 teaches. It also goes on to say that the Catholic church desires unification with all christian churches. Anyway I just wanted to throw that out there. From what I have read the church’s doctrine hasn’t changed form before the last council.

 

[rwoehmke]

That is exactly correct. I read a book written in the mid 30’s about the Holy Spirit. Most of what was and is taught and practiced by the Catholic Charismatic movement was described therein.

The problem occurs when people read old papal documents, decrees, etc. and interpret the translation instead of looking to the current teaching magisterium for the correct, clear interpretation as found in the documents of Vatican II and the CCC. Leads to lots of hot discussion in the fora.

 

[yinekka]

The *Spirit of Catholicism *is available online at the link below

ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SPIRCATH.HTM
*

My neighbor left the church because they taught that ALL non Catholics were going to hell.*

You have no way of knowing if your neighbour was really taught this or he/she used this as the excuse for leaving the Church that Christ founded. Many people leave the Church because they find her teaching on contraception, abortion and divorce too difficult but they save face by inventing a more intellectual reason.

I was taught that it is possible for everyone to go to heaven but Catholics will find it harder For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall, much be asked … Luke 12:48

 

[603304529]

If you’re a Catholic, and are saved (ie, enjoy the Beatific Vision, get to Heaven, avoid eternal damnation etc), then it is BECAUSE of your religion, and the graces flowing from Her, and from the relatively “easy” way of getting your sins forgiven (through the Sacrament of Confession).

If you’re a non-Catholic, and are saved, then it is IN SPITE of your religious beliefs/religion.

No other religion can save you. If you are of a different faith (a false Christian religion, or a Muslim, or a pagan), and are saved, it is IN SPITE OF your religion, NOT BECAUSE OF IT…

 

[Deacon_Ed]

If you’re a Catholic, and are saved (ie, enjoy the Beatific Vision, get to Heaven, avoid eternal damnation etc), then it is BECAUSE of your religion, and the graces flowing from Her, and from the relatively “easy” way of getting your sins forgiven (through the Sacrament of Confession).

If you’re a non-Catholic, and are saved, then it is IN SPITE of your religious beliefs/religion.

No other religion can save you. If you are of a different faith (a false Christian religion, or a Muslim, or a pagan), and are saved, it is IN SPITE OF your religion, NOT BECAUSE OF IT…

More precisely – one is saved through cooperation with the salvific action of Christ working through His Church. This is regardless of whether one is Catholic or not. A Catholic has the advantage of a greater access to grace through the sacraments, but God is merciful and generous with His graces.

Deacon Ed

 

[maurin]

More precisely – one is saved through cooperation with the salvific action of Christ working through His Church. This is regardless of whether one is Catholic or not. A Catholic has the advantage of a greater access to grace through the sacraments, but God is merciful and generous with His graces.

Deacon Ed

Agreed, Deacon Ed.

But WHICH Church IS His Church?

 

[603304529]

I believe in one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church…

Upon this rock, I will build My Church…

 

[maurin]

More precisely – one is saved through cooperation with the salvific action of Christ working through His Church. This is regardless of whether one is Catholic or not. A Catholic has the advantage of a greater access to grace through the sacraments, but God is merciful and generous with His graces.

Deacon Ed

Agreed, Deacon Ed.

But WHICH Church IS His Church?

I believe in one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church…

Upon this rock, I will build My Church…

I so believe also. my question to the Deacon is which Church IS the Church of Jesus Christ?

 

[Eucharisted]

More precisely – one is saved through cooperation with the salvific action of Christ working through His Church. This is regardless of whether one is Catholic or not. A Catholic has the advantage of a greater access to grace through the sacraments, but God is merciful and generous with His graces.

Deacon Ed

Deacon Ed, perhaps you can knock some sense into Dauphin? He believes that no non-Catholics, save the innocently ignorant, can be saved. You can read his arguments here.

But, as I know priests are busy people, if you do not have time to talk with Dauphin, than please, at least, pray for him. Thank you

 

[Dauphin]

Deacon Ed, perhaps you can knock some sense into Dauphin? He believes that no non-Catholics, save the innocently ignorant, can be saved. You can read his arguments here.

But, as I know priests are busy people, if you do not have time to talk with Dauphin, than please, at least, pray for him. Thank you

“Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control” - Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem

I’ll pray for Pope Pius IX to knock some sense into you and Deacon Ed. I hold to the Papal Magisterium, and so should all.

I know that the actual teaching of the Church is pesky for those who would love the think that everyone goes to heaven, but it is what it is. I won’t stop telling the truth because it’s unpopular.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

“Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control” - Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem

I’ll pray for Pope Pius IX to knock some sense into you and Deacon Ed. I hold to the Papal Magisterium, and so should all.

Simple enough

relevant quotes:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

 

[Dauphin]

Simple enough

relevant quotes:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

Exactly. This is the clear teaching with which people here are disagreeing. The innocently ignorant can be saved if not explicitly united to the Church, but not those who are culpable for their ignorance of who know of Christ and His Church.

 

[3Sanctus]

Unfortunately most Catholics seem to think invincible ignorance is the norm - as opposed to the exception. There was discussion on this at a Catholic young adults function I attended Tuesday night and I raised my hand to inform the confused middle-of-the-roaders about this, but apparently I’m not qualified to talk at such functions, because everyone else who wanted to speak after me go to talk but then when I was the only one left it was “time to go.”

It’s amazing how intimidated modernists are…