The spirit of the law

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1Lord1Faith said:
Some would disagree with that but thats not the point.

I agree with you, what I’m asking is what has prevented that. Nothing prevented it in Jesus’ time. Charity existed is Jesus’ time.
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We are not under the Law (the Torah) and all the commandments that the pharisees etc added.

That was decided back in the first Century - at the council that is discussed in the book of Acts.

So all those things do not apply to us…

But rather the Gospel and the moral law etc.
 
Bookcat said:
We are not under the Law (the Torah) and all the commandments that the pharisees etc added.

That was decided back in the first Century - at the council that is discussed in the book of Acts.

So all those things do not apply to us…

But rather the Gospel and the moral law etc.
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What is to stop our pope from adding to the moral law etc… You said the pharisees added to the Law (the Torah)
 
Bookcat said:
We are not under the Law (the Torah) and all the commandments that the pharisees etc added.

That was decided back in the first Century - at the council that is discussed in the book of Acts.

So all those things do not apply to us…

But rather the Gospel and the moral law etc.
Click to expand...
In teaching about the Law, Matthew tells us that Jesus affirms the Torah of Moses and that “whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven” (5:19). Matthew somewhat paradoxically has Jesus affirm the validity of the Law but relieves those who do break with the Law from banishment in the kingdom of heaven to only the lowest place. Matthew, still very interested in Jewish Law, sees Jesus’ function as the fulfillment, not the abolition of the Law. Barclay, in Introduction to the First Three Gospels, comments that Matthew’s idea of the ideal Christian is a “man trained in Jewish law who has brought his whole Jewish background to be baptized with him in Christianity” (104). Matthew speaks to those people in the Jewish community considering Christianity. Other disciples speak to non-Jews. Pauline theology is a problem for Matthew.

Matthew’s teaching contradicts Paul’s. Paul rejects the Torah as a means of justification, “We . . . may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law because by works of the law no one will be justified” (Gal. 2:16). Matthew answers his opposition by insisting on the validity of the Law, but in a Christian way relegates Paul’s followers, those who are not up to keeping the Law, those who break the Law, to “being called the least in the kingdom” rather than condemning them to suffer eternal damnation (5:19).

Paul’s theology prevailed. Moreover, today no major Christian church requires observance of all 613 precepts of the Old Testament law, ethical and ceremonial, but only the ethical commands such as the Decalogue and command to love God and neighbor.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
What is to stop our pope from adding to the moral law etc… You said the pharisees added to the Law (the Torah)
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The Holy Spirit would stop a Pope from teaching error. We are not privy as to how this would occur. I also believe that the Holy Spirit with guide the Magisterium when implementing disciplinary rules such that the rules will not hinder our spiritual development.
 
davidv said:
The Holy Spirit would stop a Pope from teaching error. We are not privy as to how this would occur. I also believe that the Holy Spirit with guide the Magisterium when implementing disciplinary rules such that the rules will not hinder our spiritual development.
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This would imply, according to my original post, that because Jewish Law in Jesus’ time became “a complicated tangle of laws” violating the spirit of the law, that the holy Spirit was not guiding the Jewish authority in the Temple, right?
 
1Lord1Faith said:
What is to stop our pope from adding to the moral law etc… You said the pharisees added to the Law (the Torah)
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There are things things that are added …and even come under the moral law (like obedience).

Such has not at all the same as all the things that were part of Torah and that which was added by the Pharisees etc. Totally different worlds.

Totally different approach and matter.
 
Bookcat said:
Totally different approach and matter.
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If the holy Spirit was with the Jews in the Temple, how is the approach different. Given that the holy Spirit is what protects us from error today.

I understand that the law is different.

I’m talking about the protection of the spirit of the law. as referenced in the OP
 
1Lord1Faith said:
This would imply, according to my original post, that because Jewish Law in Jesus’ time became “a complicated tangle of laws” violating the spirit of the law, that the holy Spirit was not guiding the Jewish authority in the Temple, right?
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That seems to have been the case. Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was not accessible to most humans. It seems from Scripture that His presence was limited to the prophets and a few select individuals.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was made accessible to all.
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CCC:
The Holy Spirit and the Church

737 The mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit is brought to completion in the Church, which is the Body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit. This joint mission henceforth brings Christ’s faithful to share in his communion with the Father in the Holy Spirit. The Spirit prepares men and goes out to them with his grace, in order to draw them to Christ. The Spirit manifests the risen Lord to them, recalls his word to them and opens their minds to the understanding of his Death and Resurrection. He makes present the mystery of Christ, supremely in the Eucharist, in order to reconcile them, to bring them into communion with God, that they may "bear much fruit."132

738 Thus the Church’s mission is not an addition to that of Christ and the Holy Spirit, but is its sacrament: in her whole being and in all her members, the Church is sent to announce, bear witness, make present, and spread the mystery of the communion of the Holy Trinity (the topic of the next article):

All of us who have received one and the same Spirit, that is, the Holy Spirit, are in a sense blended together with one another and with God. For if Christ, together with the Father’s and his own Spirit, comes to dwell in each of us, though we are many, still the Spirit is one and undivided. He binds together the spirits of each and every one of us, . . . and makes all appear as one in him. For just as the power of Christ’s sacred flesh unites those in whom it dwells into one body, I think that in the same way the one and undivided Spirit of God, who dwells in all, leads all into spiritual unity.133

739 Because the Holy Spirit is the anointing of Christ, it is Christ who, as the head of the Body, pours out the Spirit among his members to nourish, heal, and organize them in their mutual functions, to give them life, send them to bear witness, and associate them to his self-offering to the Father and to his intercession for the whole world. Through the Church’s sacraments, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body. (This will be the topic of Part Two of the Catechism.)
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1Lord1Faith said:
If the holy Spirit was with the Jews in the Temple, how is the approach different. Given that the holy Spirit is what protects us from error today.

I understand that the law is different.

I’m talking about the protection of the spirit of the law. as referenced in the OP
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Your understanding of the Presence of these various aspects - regarding the Temple, the Law and all the associated aspects, the great difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the reality of what took place when the Gentiles became Christians and were not required to live as Jews, the reality of the nature of the Holy Spirit and the Church and how the Holy Spirit works in the Church, the complete different approach of the Jewish Pharisees and that of the Church - that is of Christians…all this needs to be explored - which is not something done easily via a forum. Much deep and rich fare there. A good start for you is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
davidv said:
That seems to have been the case. Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was not accessible to most humans. It seems from Scripture that His presence was limited to the prophets and a few select individuals.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was made accessible to all.
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Thank you, this seems to be what I was getting at.
 
Bookcat said:
Your understanding of the Presence of these various aspects - regarding the Temple, the Law and all the associated aspects, the great difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the reality of what took place when the Gentiles became Christians and were not required to live as Jews, the reality of the nature of the Holy Spirit and the Church and how the Holy Spirit works in the Church, the complete different approach of the Jewish Pharisees and that of the Church - that is of Christians…all this needs to be explored - which is not something done easily via a forum. Much deep and rich fare there. A good start for you is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Thank you for bearing with me, your right I have a lot to learn. One book I would like to read is called Jesus and the Jewish roots of the Eucharist, hopefully sometime this year.
 
davidv said:
That seems to have been the case. Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was not accessible to most humans. It seems from Scripture that His presence was limited to the prophets and a few select individuals.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was made accessible to all.
Click to expand...
I knew about Pentecost, but I did not know that the Holy Spirit was not accessible, with a few exceptions, prior to that. I guess God figured we needed more guidance.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
I knew about Pentecost, but I did not know that the Holy Spirit was not accessible, with a few exceptions, prior to that. I guess God figured we needed more guidance.
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I think it had more to do with humanities spiritual maturity, or rather, the lack of it in OT times.
 
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