"The Syllabus Of Errors" - what is the official position of the Church?

[cvmocanu]

Hello,

Since I know things can get out of hands on an Internet forum (especially in matters of religion), and what follows may look like I want to quarrel, I will start with the following.
Our Lord commanded me to love my enemies, and since I don’t consider you my enemies, I have even more reason to treat you with love and respect.
I consider that anybody engaging in hateful speech or writing is not worthy to bear the name of Christ.

Now, to the reason of my topic.
I just recently read “The Syllabus of Errors” (as it stands here: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm - retrieved 2017-12-29).
Not having read the original documents from where these points were extracted, please forgive me if I didn’t understand them and made mistakes below.

The reason for my post is not so much to find what this document means, but to find what is current official position of the Catholic Church on some of the points.
I am interested in pointers/links to official documents, since that is the only way for me to determine the position of the Church, and separate it from the opinion of a particular believer, however sincere.

First, let me tell you that I agree with some of the points made in that document.
I have counted 20 points to which I fully agree, and there are probably more (on some points I am undecided, some others I didn’t fully understand).

There are some points which I find troubling, and I would like some clarification on the official position of the Catholic Church in relation to them.

(*) Point 15. “Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true”.
Point 78. “Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship.”
Does the Catholic Church think that:

• it’s wrong for the government of any state to grant full freedom to each individual to search for himself what is the true religion?
• it’s correct to make civil laws forbidding (or disfavoring) religions other than the Catholic faith?
  Would it make (or encourage the State to make) such laws given the opportunity?

(*) Point 24. “The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.”
Does the Catholic Church think it has temporal authority over people who do not subscribe the the Catholic faith (e.g. Protestants, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.)?
Does the Catholic Church think it’s correct to use force to:

• convert a person to the Catholic faith?
• keep a Catholic believer from renouncing the Catholic faith?
  What kind of temporal power is the Catholic Church ready to use, if given the opportunity?

(*) Point 55. “The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church”.
Is this still the official position of the Church?

Once again, I did not create the post to attack anybody and it should not be taken like this.
I am only looking for answers and I am expecting that love and respect that is appropriate for a Christian whose Master told him to “love your neighbor as yourself”.

Thanks and may God bless you!

 

[Mr_Freeze]

Hello…

I will attempt short answers here:

it’s wrong for the government of any state to grant full freedom to each individual to search for himself what is the true religion? No. Free will is our God-given gift and the Church knows that.

it’s correct to make civil laws forbidding (or disfavoring) religions other than the Catholic faith?
Would it make (or encourage the State to make) such laws given the opportunity? No. See above…
But, we acknowledge the Kingship of our Lord over all the Earth.

Does the Catholic Church think it has temporal authority over people who do not subscribe the the Catholic faith (e.g. Protestants, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.)? Only in matters relating to teaching and professing the true religion. i/e…it’s her job to teach and preach the true faith even to those who deny it.
Does the Catholic Church think it’s correct to use force to:

convert a person to the Catholic faith? No. Absolutely not.
keep a Catholic believer from renouncing the Catholic faith? Nope
What kind of temporal power is the Catholic Church ready to use, if given the opportunity? Ready to use?..not much these days! But, there was precedent for calling the crusades to drive out the moslem invaders.

“The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church”.
Is this still the official position of the Church? Yes.

 

[cvmocanu]

Thank you, Mr_Freeze.

Do you know where I can find official documents that sustain your points?

 

[Mr_Freeze]

Hoo boy…
I don’t think the points are laid out as direct answers to the questions on a document per se. The answers I gave are derived from basic Catholic theology.

Try looking online for a resource called “Radio Replies”. You will likely find more detailed explanations there by searching the topics.

 

[Gorgias]

Do you know where I can find official documents that sustain your points?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (in its section on morality, if I recall correctly) talks about every person’s right to follow his own conscience, especially in matters of choice of religion. One of the documents of Vatican II (whose name escapes me at the moment) makes that point, as well.

I would think that, in matters of ecumenism and inter-religious dialogue, the document Ut unum sint would be helpful to you, as well as the Catechism.

 

[cvmocanu]

@Gorgias: thanks, I will check the Catechism and “Ut unum sint”. If you remember the name of the Vatican II document, please share.

 

[MPat]

The reason for my post is not so much to find what this document means, but to find what is current official position of the Catholic Church on some of the points.

I am interested in pointers/links to official documents, since that is the only way for me to determine the position of the Church, and separate it from the opinion of a particular believer, however sincere.

It looks like the main document you are going to be interested in is “Dignitatis Humanae” from Vatican II council (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...t-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html).

Perhaps it is worth to have a look at the documents cited in the Syllabus as well.

French and Latin versions of them are available in Les actes pontificaux cités dans l'encyclique et le syllabus du 8 décembre 1864 : suivis de divers autres documents : Catholic Church. Pope (1846-1878 : Pius IX) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive - “Les actes pontificaux cités dans l’encyclique et le syllabus du 8 décembre 1864 : suivis de divers autres documents”.

(*) Point 15. “Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true”.

Does the Catholic Church think that:

• it’s wrong for the government of any state to grant full freedom to each individual to search for himself what is the true religion?
• it’s correct to make civil laws forbidding (or disfavoring) religions other than the Catholic faith?

Would it make (or encourage the State to make) such laws given the opportunity?

The documents given are Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851. Extracted first document can be found in https://archive.org/details/EncycliqueMultiplicesInter10juin1851DePIEIX. The translation of second document can be found in Maxima Quidem – The Josias or ZEPHYRINUS.: "Maxima Quidem". Allocution Of Blessed Pope Pius IX. Given In Consistory On 9 June 1862..

You might note that “government” is not mentioned in that point (although other parts of the document do talk about it). This point is not about the governmental policy. It is about indifferentism.

What kind of temporal power is the Catholic Church ready to use, if given the opportunity?

Church does have temporal power in Vatican. You can go and see for yourself how that power is used.

(*) Point 55. “The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church”.

Is this still the official position of the Church?

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start by asking what, in your opinion, does “separation of Church from the State” mean…?

The ones who advocate it usually mean that State does not have to even hear out anyone from the Church (even as private citizens), but Church must obey the State.

And yes, that is still condemned.

 

[commenter]

it’s correct to make civil laws forbidding (or disfavoring) religions other than the Catholic faith?

Would it make (or encourage the State to make) such laws given the opportunity?

The problem is that ideologies have expanded into de facto religions in the past century. Does the Church think it is right to use government action to restrict the practice of, say, the Nazi religion? Yes! Only after peaceful persuasion failed, the Church condoned the use of force to ban the public practice of this religion; or rather to remove practitioners from any ability to impact other people.

Secular Humanism has arisen from a theoretical religion in a few colleges, coffee houses and underground newspapers to practically an established religion in the US, parts of Europe, and Canada. To a large extent it controls the media and government. It is no longer a hypothetical, it imposes abortion on millions of babies each year.

Does the Catholic Church support the use of force to restrict the public power of this religion? Yes! Does the Catholic Church want to ban private discussions in coffee houses, or personal belief? No. (Anyone who has looked into the prochoice movement can see what is operative here is not just a political preference, this is “religious”, in the sense of fanaticism).

Of course the Church (or rather, the Natural Law) does not have the power it had in 1945. We (and Protestants) could support General Eisenhower bringing troops to forcibly end the concentration camps, but we do not at present have the ability to force close the “clinics” in 2017. Someday we will.

Of course, the Church supports the right of an individual “person” to practice Nazism or Humanism. The problem is with corporate “persons”.

If Nazism, or Secular Humanism, is the established “Church”, the Catholic Church does support the right, even the duty, to work to disestablish it.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Now, to the reason of my topic.

I just recently read “The Syllabus of Errors” (as it stands here: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm - retrieved 2017-12-29).

Not having read the original documents from where these points were extracted, please forgive me if I didn’t understand them and made mistakes below.

That document (the Syllabus) has been misunderstood from the day it was issued! Here is Newman’s reply which explains how the points are related to very specific 19th century issues.

 

[cvmocanu]

Thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I may come back with further questions after I do my homework of reading and understanding the documents you gave me already.

Thanks again!

 

[Genesis315]

Yes, the Newman explanation is absolutely necessary reading.

Also see the Catholic Encylopedia article:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14368b.htm

The main takeaway is that the Syllabus itself points to texts, which address errors and it is those texts that need to be read to determine the true meaning and the theological value of the subjects treated.

As both articles note, some of the documents deal with a range of things from specific situations in specific countries to more universal principles and the condemnations range from the dogmatic to personal disappointment.

The Syllabus full title is “A Syllabus containing the most important errors of our time, which have been condemned by our Holy Father Pius IX in Allocutions, at Consistories, in Encyclicals, and other Apostolic Letters”. It’s not meant to be authoritative in itself (as the CE article notes, early drafts were to be like other documents that directly condemn lists of errors, but the Pope chose a different approach), but rather a “hey, in cased you missed all these important other documents and speeches, here’s a list organized by topic.”

EDIT: just to add, here is a book with all the texts the Sylalbus points to (as well as the encyclical Quanta Cura), but it’s in Latin:

The Encylical [!] Letter of Pope Pius IX. and the Syllabus of Modern Errors ... - Catholic Church. Pope (1846-1878 : Pius IX) - Google Books