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cnderella03
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How do you know that Catholicism is the true religion? Please use bible references.
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MrS
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The approach to answering this question will depend a lot on your background. So perhaps you could elaborate… age, family religious preference, reason for being non-denominational etc.
Who are your friends… Catholic, unchurched…
What types of people impress you… a Jesse Jackson… a Martin Luther… a John Paul II…
And also… what do you know about Catholicism so far, and how did you learn it?
Thanks
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tkdnick
Guest
Since I know why you’re here…Here’s just a comment about your Bible quotation requirement. At the end of John’s Gospel he writes “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.” - John 21:25. So right there John is telling us that there is more than what is in the Bible. That’s where Sacred Tradition comes in. Not everything is in the Bible because there isn’t enough room to include everything.
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cnderella03
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The reason I chose to be non-denominational because there is no mention in the bible of certain religions and i believe it separates christians even more.
My friends come in all religions and i do associate with the unchurched as well. However even those who are of a certain religious denomination are not able to give me a biblical basis for their beliefs. Hopefully you can.
I know that you believe that Peter was the most prominent disciple and that he was the rock that Jesus built his church upon. However when i was discussing this issue with a co-worker, he still could not find a biblical reference as to how Catholicism was the religion Jesus built the church upon. Also I was told that Catholics base their beliefs on the bible but not solely on the bible. I was told that Catholics also base their beliefs on tradition and I am confused as to how to justify that.
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alyssa
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See if this helps as far as Scripture and Tradition are concerned:
catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp
catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp
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Dave
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For the first 1500 years of Christianity, there was only one church - the Catholic church. Jesus always refered to his body as the ‘church’, not the ‘churches’. The Catholic church holds the same core beliefs today as it did 500 years ago, and 2000 years ago. The denominational divisions only started when the ‘reformers’ decided to make up their own rules…
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alyssa
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Try here, too, for biblical references, although you will need to look them up to double check context: scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html
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MrS
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MrS
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Isn’t the number 3 neat? How the Trinity (3) is always in unison with itself… marriage (3) of mother, father, children… 3witnesses to the Truth… etc.
I was told that Catholics also base their beliefs on tradition and I am confused as to how to justify that.
That was also a stumbling block for the Reformers. In an effort to reject the Authority of the Magisterium, and the importance of Oral Traditions (most also found in the Bible), Luther and the rest began the novel idea of Scripture Alone. Anyone can read the Bible and anyone can interpret etc…what a mess.
If you are asked to provide one Tradition, not found in the Bible try this… the books of the Bible. Christians believe that the books of the bible are the inspired word of God… and the men choosen to determine which books are inspired were the early Catholics. If the Holy Spirit could use those men to determine what is in the bible, why couldn’t the same Holy Spirit guide them in correct interpretation of that same bible?
I was told that Catholics also base their beliefs on tradition and I am confused as to how to justify that.
That was also a stumbling block for the Reformers. In an effort to reject the Authority of the Magisterium, and the importance of Oral Traditions (most also found in the Bible), Luther and the rest began the novel idea of Scripture Alone. Anyone can read the Bible and anyone can interpret etc…what a mess.
If you are asked to provide one Tradition, not found in the Bible try this… the books of the Bible. Christians believe that the books of the bible are the inspired word of God… and the men choosen to determine which books are inspired were the early Catholics. If the Holy Spirit could use those men to determine what is in the bible, why couldn’t the same Holy Spirit guide them in correct interpretation of that same bible?
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preyoflove
Guest
No. Religions are mentioned in the Bible. The Old Testament is replete of them. Begin with Exodus and note carefully how God sets Israel apart from the other nations who each have their own gods, their own religions. Take the Ten Plagues of Egypt for example, each plague was God’s judgment to a major deity of Egypt. Is this not proof how God treats any religion other than the true one He established in Israel? What about those commands to completely annihilate the inhabitants of a certain town, city, territory or kingdom He has placed into Israel’s power? Can’t you see that God does not want the false religion of the inhabitants to corrupt and eventually dissolve the true religion He established in Israel? God hates idolatry and superstition, especially when it begins to infest the true religion He has established.
Confused? Don’t be. The same Bible will tell us why we based our belief not only in Scripture but also in Tradition:
**"Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold **the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle." 2 Th 2:15
As MrS correctly said it:“by word” refers to Tradition and “by epistle” refers to Scripture.
Peace, so be it.
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RobedWithLight
Guest
In addition to the points raised above, why should we limit ourselves to strictly biblical references to prove what is the true religion?
Can you justify to us your Bible-only criteria based on strictly Biblical references ?
The first disciples in the first three centuries did not have a “Bible” as we now understand it to be.
Please do consider that what constitutes the Bible you now use, is what the Catholic Church defined it to be in 397 A.D.
Gerry
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Todd_Easton
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Catholic Answers’ booklet, Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth, would be a good place to start, www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp.
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cnderella03
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Okay and that was already explained to me, however how do you know that jesus intended for the church to be catholic? I have never heard “Catholic” mentioned in the bible
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cnderella03
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cnderella03:
and i believe it separates christians even more.
Do you understand that the Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) was given to the world by the Catholic Church…formally at the end of the forth century, and re-affirmed in the Council of Trent (a response to the Reformation)
My friends come in all religions and i do associate with the unchurched as well. However even those who are of a certain religious denomination are **not able to give me a biblical basis for their beliefs. **
You know, as you grow in Christ, you will find that is the case… Christian religions and communities have no foundation in scripture. They were all founded by man, not by Jesus Christ.
Hopefully you can.
I know that you believe that Peter was the most prominent disciple
Even most Protestants will admit that. He not only is mentioned more than all the rest combined, but also is singled out by Christ on numerous occasions as the Pre-eminent Apostle.
and that he was the rock that Jesus built his church upon.
However when i was discussing this issue with a co-worker, he still could not find a biblical reference as to how Catholicism was the religion Jesus built the church upon.
If you agree that Christ told the truth when He said “…I will build My Church…”, then it stands to reason that Christ did the building… that Christ built HIS church, not some man centuries later…and that Christ built a Church, not churches.
Then the questions becomes "If Christ only build one Church, is it still around today."
And if you accept Christ telling the truth that “the gates of hell will not prevail against it (the Church)” then IT has not been overtakes by the gates of hell (errors, lies, sin, deceit etc)
Around the year 110ad, one of the early “fathers” of the Church, Ignatius, referred to this new church as Catholic. And so it was and has remained ever since. It is a church filled with sinners and problems, and it has survived in spite of itself for 2000 years. It is the Church (Christ, truth, etc) which is perfect, not the people in it.
Also I was told that Catholics base their beliefs on the bible but not solely on the bible.
That is correct. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. Christ, through the Holy Spirit, and starting with the birthday of the Church on Pentacost, gave mankind three witnesses to the Truth. Each survives only in unison with the other two. The Bible (the written Word of God), Sacred Tradition (the oral Word of God), and the Magisterium (the authoritative interpreter of the Word of God)
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and this is all very enlightening, however if the chuch is not based on the bible then it is man made. And with man being a fallen creature, how do you know that men who carry the tradition did not alter it in any way. I believe that the church that God created is still here today however I don’t believe that it is necessarily the Catholic church.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
My friend:
I ask you this: Before “the Bible” was available, in the first three centuries after the resurrection of our Lord, when the New Testament was being spoken and written, and the scriptures of the Jewish people were being considered, read, and studied, AND at the SAME TIME oral AND WRITTEN works were made by the apostles (the Didache, the Protoevangelium of James) and others, WHAT DID JESUS’S CHURCH HAVE FOR INSPIRATION and HOW DID THE MEMBERS OF THAT CHURCH–the CATHOLIC church according to a man writing less than 2 generations after the Resurrection–FUNCTION?
There was NO WRITTEN BIBLE until 397 A.D.
But there certainly WAS the church that Jesus instituted.
What church was that, if not the Catholic church, the church that at that time spread from Rome to what became Constantinople and beyond–the “West” and the “East” of today since the schism of 1044 A.D.
It isn’t a question of Jesus’s “intending” for his church to be Catholic–it IS Catholic. Catholic, one, apostolic. . .like it or not, the Catholic church IS the one true church established by Christ. Later Protestant churches “separated” themselves from that church but still profess our Lord and God. But BECAUSE they are separated, they must “automatically” be LATER than the church they separated FROM.
I ask you this: Before “the Bible” was available, in the first three centuries after the resurrection of our Lord, when the New Testament was being spoken and written, and the scriptures of the Jewish people were being considered, read, and studied, AND at the SAME TIME oral AND WRITTEN works were made by the apostles (the Didache, the Protoevangelium of James) and others, WHAT DID JESUS’S CHURCH HAVE FOR INSPIRATION and HOW DID THE MEMBERS OF THAT CHURCH–the CATHOLIC church according to a man writing less than 2 generations after the Resurrection–FUNCTION?
There was NO WRITTEN BIBLE until 397 A.D.
But there certainly WAS the church that Jesus instituted.
What church was that, if not the Catholic church, the church that at that time spread from Rome to what became Constantinople and beyond–the “West” and the “East” of today since the schism of 1044 A.D.
It isn’t a question of Jesus’s “intending” for his church to be Catholic–it IS Catholic. Catholic, one, apostolic. . .like it or not, the Catholic church IS the one true church established by Christ. Later Protestant churches “separated” themselves from that church but still profess our Lord and God. But BECAUSE they are separated, they must “automatically” be LATER than the church they separated FROM.
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mercygate
Guest
Church “based on” the Bible.
There is a fundamental impossibility in this presupposition. The Church is not “based on the Bible.” Church and Bible are simply inseparable and absolutely co-terminous. The Bible does not have an existence independent of the Tradition of the Church. The Bible is the book of the Church.
This may shock you. Why do we say it? Of all the thousands of writings circulating in and around the Church in New Testament times, the Church found consensus that those now included in the New Testament carried a special authority and authenticity, and were thus included in the list of official texts to be read in the liturgy. (Others here have shown that history.)
You believe the Bible is specially authoritative. Why? Why should anybody believe that the Bible is authoritative? A Catholic believes it because, looking at the history of the early Church, looking at the joy with which Christians went to horrible deaths for their belief in the Resurrection, we are convinced that only a profound belief in the utter truth of this unlikely event could possibly have motivated such conviction.
We also know that among the thousands of manuscripts of the New Testament books extant in many languages, the textual antiquity and congruity corroborates their authenticity. Thus, we can trust what the books SAY. Since they say that Jesus rose from the dead, we can believe it – based on the experience of the early witnesses and of the early Church. If Jesus claimed to be God, and proved it by his Resurrection, we then must take his word for it that he meant to do and did what he said he would do. One thing he said he would do is build his Church on the “rock” of Peter. The Catholic Church can trace its roots, historically, back to the upper room, back to that “rock,” back to Jesus himself.
How do you know that men who carry the tradition did not alter it in any way?
Because we have the history. Moreover, we trust the words of Jesus that “the gates of Hell should not prevail against it [his Church]” We trust that the Spirit is always with her – also according to his promise. Is there sin in the Church? Yes. Are there sinners in the Church? Yes. The wheat and the tares grow together until the last harvest – again, as Jesus promised.
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mercygate
Guest
Church “based on” the Bible.
There is a fundamental impossibility in this presupposition. The Church is not “based on the Bible.” Church and Bible are simply inseparable and absolutely co-terminous. The Bible does not have an existence independent of the Tradition of the Church. The Bible is the book of the Church.
This may shock you. Why do we say it? Of all the thousands of writings circulating in and around the Church in New Testament times, the Church found consensus that those now included in the New Testament carried a special authority and authenticity, and were thus included in the list of official texts to be read in the liturgy. (Others here have shown that history.)
You believe the Bible is specially authoritative. Why? Why should anybody believe that the Bible is authoritative? A Catholic believes it because, looking at the history of the early Church, looking at the joy with which Christians went to horrible deaths for their belief in the Resurrection, we are convinced that only a profound belief in the utter truth of this unlikely event could possibly have motivated such conviction.
We also know that among the thousands of manuscripts of the New Testament books extant in many languages, the textual antiquity and congruity corroborates their authenticity. Thus, we can trust what the books SAY. Since they say that Jesus rose from the dead, we can believe it – based on the experience of the early witnesses and of the early Church. If Jesus claimed to be God, and proved it by his Resurrection, we then must take his word for it that he meant to do, and did, what he said he would do in those books. One thing he said he would do is build his Church on the “rock” of Peter. The Catholic Church can trace its roots, historically, back to the upper room, back to that “rock,” back to Jesus himself.
How do you know that men who carry the tradition did not alter it in any way?
Because we have the history. Because men do not carry that Tradition unaided by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, we trust the words of Jesus that “the gates of Hell should not prevail against it [his Church].” We trust his promise that the Spirit is always with her. Is there sin in the Church? Yes. Are there sinners in the Church? Yes. The wheat and the tares grow together until the last harvest – again, as Jesus promised.
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MrS
Guest
1] Yes the Catholic Church is Man made… and the Man is Jesus Christ, the God-Man, fully God, and fully Man
2] Because Jesus promised that the Gates of Hell would NOT prevail.
3] Then it is up to you to suggest an alternative if the Church founded by Jesus is not the Catholic Church.
If Jesus knocked on your door on Saturday night, and asked you to take Him to Church on Sunday, where would you take Him. Better yet, where do you think He would want to go?
Don’t you think it would be the Church HE founded?
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RBushlow
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You’ve got it backwards, cnderella03. The Church came first. The Church predates the New Testament by 400 years. We know that it is the Catholic Church becaust all of the evidence available indicates it. Also, the bible says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth. Also you can find it by asking the Holy Spirit. Pray every day the the Holy Spirit will guide you to the Truth, then diligently seek the Truth and it will become clear.
May the Peace of Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always.
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Exporter
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I give you John 21:25. Then, neither God nor Jesus said," Go write a Bible". He said go preach the Gospel to the entire world! That gives us ORAL Tradition!
Catholic is not in the Bible, neither is Pope in the Bible - they are Latin Words. The Bible was not written in Latin, it was written in Hebrew & Greek!
I ask you to show us where Bible Only (Sola Scriptura) is in the Bible. You can use any Bible you wish to use.
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