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puzzleannie
Guest
since only snippets of the rest of the series are truthful, historically accurate, unbiased, and based on actual facts and events, my guess without seeing the clip would be odds are, no.
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PiousTemplar
Guest
I got thoughts of that seeing as 1:30 is a contradiction of the faith. So are you saying the Tudors is merely entertainment and not historical?
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Sair
Guest
Being a bit of a history buff, the only way I can watch The Tudors is if I think of it as a soap opera with characters who just happen to have the same names as historical figures. I’d take anything you see in it with several tablespoons of salt.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I know, I am shocked, shocked to find a program billed as history is mere entertainment.
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PiousTemplar
Guest
WHATTT! Sorry off topic, but HOW THE DIESEL TRAINS DID YOU MANAGE TO GET THAT MANY POSTS!!!I know, I am shocked, shocked to find a program billed as history is mere entertainment.
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AdriannaJean
Guest
Well, I know we’ve had a few bad apples in the papacy and it wouldn’t surprise me if one of them meddled in politics and did something similar. That particular scene might not have happened but I would bet it’s fairly likely that a pope asked a king to invade another country at some point or another.
This program is awful and there are so many innacuracies in it.
I think it has Henry VI with eight wives.
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kathmandu
Guest
You should read more European history. A lot of this went on over the centuries because the Pope was a political power and ruled over a much larger area then what is now Vatican City.
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sandomenico
Guest
I am going to be as brief and clear as possible. This scene is far, FAR from the truth. There is no historical basis for it, whatsoever.
First, you will recall, Henry’s second wife, the one he wished to divorce to marry Anne Boleyn was Catherine of Aragon, a Spanish Princess. Considering that Spain was the grieved nation, and further considering that the king of Spain was also the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, it would seem highly unlikely that the pope would call a “less loyal” and far weaker nation (France was economically, demographically, and spiritually dry after the debacle of the 100 Years’ War) to try and drive Henry from England. The scriptwriter obviously got no further in his history books than to see that Catholic France is the “Oldest Daughter of the Church.” But that certainly does not make France a catch-all for political problems.
Second, IN NO WISE would the Pope ask a lay ruler to carry out an “excommunication order.” there is no more powerful or beneficial manner to excommunicate someone than through the pope himself. The Catholic Church is not a political institution. Besides that, there is no such thing as an “excommunication order.” There is excommunication, a form of punishment to call the sinner to repentance. It is not a result of impenitence, but a signal to the offender that he has completely fallen from the truth and is in grave danger of bringing others with him if he persists in that course of action. One can spank a child to show disapproval of his actions, but the child chooses whether or not to heed that punishment and amend. Henry chose to persist in his sins; the pope did not choose to keep him in them. No man’s sin is unforgivable.
Finally, pope’s political power was far and above a force for unity - more so than any other ruler’s political power in all of Europe. To whit: in the 8th Century, nearly all of Europe was factionalized and in complete disunity. The near-successful Muslim invasion of Europe was stopped and thrown back only by the Grace of God working through Charles Martel in 732 AD. Within a few years, the Martel family, under Charles’ son, Pepin, managed to bring the majority of Christian Europe under its rule. (Today, this rule spanned from France to the east side of Poland, and from the North Sea to the northern border of Italy.) Pepin then freed the papacy from their servitude to the Lombard kings, and donated their captured lands to the Pope, forming the Papal States - the only places where the pope wielded power to create and amend secular laws. Then in the year 800, the pope crowned Pepin’s son, Charles, Holy Roman Emperor. This act brought about a politically (because all the dukes, princes and other rulers agreed swore allegiance to Charles) and religiously (because the pope is the only one who can crown a Holy Roman Emperor) sanctioned unity in Europe that lasted for over 1100 years (if you count up to the last member of the royal family. If you prefer to count up to the actual political unity of Europe, it lasted 900 years). The Church is the only institution to consistently sow political unity in Europe, not discord.
With that I close, hopefully, I have not been too obscure or volatile in my argumentation. I pray that this may be useful to you all, and that you will endeavor to look these things up in various sources yourselves, and not just take my word for it.
God bless you all.
First, you will recall, Henry’s second wife, the one he wished to divorce to marry Anne Boleyn was Catherine of Aragon, a Spanish Princess. Considering that Spain was the grieved nation, and further considering that the king of Spain was also the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, it would seem highly unlikely that the pope would call a “less loyal” and far weaker nation (France was economically, demographically, and spiritually dry after the debacle of the 100 Years’ War) to try and drive Henry from England. The scriptwriter obviously got no further in his history books than to see that Catholic France is the “Oldest Daughter of the Church.” But that certainly does not make France a catch-all for political problems.
Second, IN NO WISE would the Pope ask a lay ruler to carry out an “excommunication order.” there is no more powerful or beneficial manner to excommunicate someone than through the pope himself. The Catholic Church is not a political institution. Besides that, there is no such thing as an “excommunication order.” There is excommunication, a form of punishment to call the sinner to repentance. It is not a result of impenitence, but a signal to the offender that he has completely fallen from the truth and is in grave danger of bringing others with him if he persists in that course of action. One can spank a child to show disapproval of his actions, but the child chooses whether or not to heed that punishment and amend. Henry chose to persist in his sins; the pope did not choose to keep him in them. No man’s sin is unforgivable.
Finally, pope’s political power was far and above a force for unity - more so than any other ruler’s political power in all of Europe. To whit: in the 8th Century, nearly all of Europe was factionalized and in complete disunity. The near-successful Muslim invasion of Europe was stopped and thrown back only by the Grace of God working through Charles Martel in 732 AD. Within a few years, the Martel family, under Charles’ son, Pepin, managed to bring the majority of Christian Europe under its rule. (Today, this rule spanned from France to the east side of Poland, and from the North Sea to the northern border of Italy.) Pepin then freed the papacy from their servitude to the Lombard kings, and donated their captured lands to the Pope, forming the Papal States - the only places where the pope wielded power to create and amend secular laws. Then in the year 800, the pope crowned Pepin’s son, Charles, Holy Roman Emperor. This act brought about a politically (because all the dukes, princes and other rulers agreed swore allegiance to Charles) and religiously (because the pope is the only one who can crown a Holy Roman Emperor) sanctioned unity in Europe that lasted for over 1100 years (if you count up to the last member of the royal family. If you prefer to count up to the actual political unity of Europe, it lasted 900 years). The Church is the only institution to consistently sow political unity in Europe, not discord.
With that I close, hopefully, I have not been too obscure or volatile in my argumentation. I pray that this may be useful to you all, and that you will endeavor to look these things up in various sources yourselves, and not just take my word for it.
God bless you all.
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