The Vatican and Nazis

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Dymphna82

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Been having a discussion with a friend, off and on. He had a question about the Pope and Nazis. I told him to “Ask an Apologist” but they haven’t bothered to answer. I need them to answer it, for my sake here. Since that would ease my burdens, I’ll quote what he said to me and hopefully one of you can answer it.
notable examples, the borgia pope (2nd one, alexander iirc), it accepting hundreds of millions worth of gold and property which was stolen by the nazis, mainly croat nazis, from ordinary people whilst smuggling the offenders to south america…
survivors of the attrocities in croatia actually filed a lawsuit against the church
how in any way can the church excuse itself from keeping millions of stolen gold and items from victims of an attrocity which were given to it by nazis, who they then helped flee justice to south america
didn’t jesus preach for the poor not to be pittied but to be helped?
ETA: He says it was Pius, not Borgia.
 
Been having a discussion with a friend, off and on. He had a question about the Pope and Nazis. I told him to “Ask an Apologist” but they haven’t bothered to answer. I need them to answer it, for my sake here. Since that would ease my burdens, I’ll quote what he said to me and hopefully one of you can answer it.

ETA: He says it was Pius, not Borgia.
Ask him to give you his source so that you can read it.
 
Is this the story you are referring too?

Court clears way for suit against the Vatican Bank for Nazi gold

bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2005/04/18/daily9.html
Alperin v. Vatican Bank

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alperin_v._Vatican_Bank
Court: Vatican Bank can’t be tried in U.S. for storing Nazi loot

haaretz.com/news/court-vatican-bank-can-t-be-tried-in-u-s-for-storing-nazi-loot-1.1099
US Ambassador Derides Claims Of Vatican-Nazi Gold Connection

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=5534
Vatican has denied the charge:

time.com/time/search/article/0,8599,8505,00.html
 
Look, let’s make it clear:
Pope Pius XII did not support the Nazis and did not believe in nor approve of, Nazi-ism,
which he regarded (correctly) as the revival of a very evil pagan blood and race cult.

Croatia and it’s atrocities (which did occur in the WWII years) is another matter, stemming from HUNDREDS of years of mutual hatred between Croats and Serbs.
It is much too complex to be discussed here.

WERE there Vatican officials sympathetic to Nazi-ism? I’m sure there were.
There are Vatican officials, you can count on it, TODAY, who
are, either openly or secretly, in support of evil and sinful things.
Surprise, this has always been true in the Christian Church.
The Church has ALWAYS had it’s sinners and even it’s Useful Idiots.
Why are we surprised?
Jesus had his Judas Iscariot. The early Church had Ananias, Sapphira, Simon Magus,
Hymenaeus and Alexander the Blasphemers, the Christian man living in Incest and Adultery with his DAD’s wife ((and the Christian Corinthians were PROUD of their deliberate TOLERANCE of this evil relationship!!)).

So your friend’s accusations of very sinful things in the Church are not entirely without foundation, nor are they in any way without precedent, either. Since the Resurrection, there have been unrepentant deliberate willful sinners in the church. Some of them even made it to the Papacy itself (such as the “Borgia” pope as but one example).

NONE of this proves CatholicISM false or erroneous, which is what your friend is REALLY getting at: These SINNERS are BAD FRUIT, thus proving that Catholicism is false, supposedly. But that’s nonsense. What’s good for the goose, is good for the Gander. The Native Americans of North America were annihilated, and massacred primarily by PROTESTANTS. Ethnic Cleansing, Mass Murder like that, is ALSO Bad Fruit, and mostly protestant Army members did it, so if the sins of CATHOLICS prove Catholicism false, then THESE protestants’ heinous acts prove Protestantism false, ipso facto.
Sorry, but truth doesn’t work that way. Our doctrines and their correctness, stand or fall on their own merits, and are provable to be the historical original apostolic teachings and apostolic authoritative interpretations of the New Testament writings as well.
Were the early church’s DOCTRINES “false” because the entire Corinthian Church was PROUD of it’s tolerance of Incest and Adultery??? Of course not.

If the Vatican Bank is hiding Nazi loot belonging to Nazi and Ustashi victims’s families, then once proof of ownership is presented (ANYBODY can make a claim, heck, I could claim some Vatican money, but my claim would be false), once presented, the funds or gold should be relinquished to the rightful owners immediately, and NO CATHOLIC would dispute that.

As for foolish decisions by Church Officials, which they later were mortified with embarassment to have to admit they made, CARDINAL INNITZER of Vienna, in 1938, welcomed the Anschluss and wrote a letter encouraging Austrians to welcome it. Why? Austrian Nationalism. They all thought of themselves as part of a “Greater Germany,” and he and many of THEM ignored the reality of the dangers of Hitlerism. He even signed his letter, HEIL HITLER! , which is something he later very much deeply regretted, and LONG BEFORE Hitler had lost the War, so not out of convenience nor out of desire to cover his own back. He was horrified at Nazi-ism once they had taken over and pulled off their Mask and revealed their true and vicious nature as they ruled Austria. But Innitzer, in the eyes of his enemies, was never allowed to live that letter down.

Lesson? Church Officials should be always MUCH MORE CAREFUL with regard to who they throw political support behind. “Vett” them, so to speak, and be extremely careful.
 
As for Rodrigo Borgia, though the man was a sinner (same as all of us) and made many poor choices and can fairly be accused of mishandling money and buying favors and using his authority to promote self interests, the truth remains that at no time during his papacy did he teach in error. Even the popes who are some times referred to as “anti-popes” never once taught in error. They made sinful choices and may have lived a life opposite of what they were to represent but Christ kept good on His promise and kept them from teaching error. I look at these examples that haters of the Church try to weaponize against us. Instead it polarizes me to my faith. If sinners that were in the authoritative positions they were in made a mess of things but STILL Christ protected and guided the Church through them, then that is proof enough of the validity of the Apostolic claim of the Catholic Church (this of course is without even needing to consider the countless historical and physical proof supporting the Catholic claim). Where your friend seeks to point at darkness there can always be found light 👍
 
He’s talking about Pius XII. :yawn: Nothing new.

Oh, and tell him to show source because I suspect he can’t.

These should help.

Someone Has Lied to You About Our Pope Pius XII

Lauds for Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church in WWII
You know, Michael, I wish people would get off this linking our communions to the Nazis. It really serves no purpose other tha fan the flames of division and polemics. There were Catholics and Lutherans who did nothing to stop hitler. There were Catholics and Lutherans who died as martyrs fighting him.

Jon
 
You know, Michael, I wish people would get off this linking our communions to the Nazis. It really serves no purpose other tha fan the flames of division and polemics. There were Catholics and Lutherans who did nothing to stop hitler. There were Catholics and Lutherans who died as martyrs fighting him.

Jon
I can certainly agree Jon. I always point out that both our communities did far and away more than all the O so noble allies did, and they knew what was going on.

And we both lost good men and women to the Nazi death camps and who fought in the various resistance groups.

Still, I like that it gives me a chance to respond and refute it, which generally makes them look pretty dumb.
 
I can certainly agree Jon. I always point out that both our communities did far and away more than all the O so noble allies did, and they knew what was going on.

And we both lost good men and women to the Nazi death camps and who fought in the various resistance groups.

Still, I like that it gives me a chance to respond and refute it, which generally makes them look pretty dumb.
😛 😉

Jon
 
I thank you all for your answers. I have linked my friend to this thread.
 
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