The virtue of selfishness?

[HabemusFrancis]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

 

[Rosebud77]

A question of balance. Sure you need to take care of your needs, but after that the greater needs of others matter too IF you are a true Christian. ,

Selfcentredness is a dangerous way to live. Spiritually and in other ways.

What we have found re working for others is that it is the poor who give more readily and generously than the rich. They KNOW the suffering of hunger and cold.

 

[Qoeleth]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

I think the argument needs to be taken seriously. A similar point is made in Strindberg’s “Inferno”. God made us to be who we are- so our primary responsibility is to preserve (or fully realize) our ‘self’.

I also recall a line from John of the Cross- instructing religious/monastic to live as if only they and God existed (i.e. minding their own business!). From experience, most problems in religious communities come from people who have a need to establish relationships by being ‘helpful’ or ‘involved’ with others.

A certain kind of inwardness or self-centeredness is definitely a virtue, insofar as God made us to be perfectly who we really are.

But, the bottom line is, if a person in need asks our help directly, our responsibility is to help them, if we can. This is charity. But this commandment does not mean that every person needs to go around founding orphanages, etc.

So, our primary responsibility is our own soul…

And an utterly selfish person will never become a terrorist, or a murderer…

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Only God can read minds and hearts, not you, me, nor our hypothetical philosopher.

We shouldn’t be codependent doormats.

Our duty is to keep ourselves stable and solid so that we are available to help others in appropriate ways that might crop up.

If we involve others in our diseased attitudes, we just spread them.

Love others AS ourselves.

 

[ffg]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

The counter can be from multiple angles -

Examples of folks who kill themselves in an observed ‘perfect life’ are a plenty.

Then there are examples of those who pour their lives out to others, never rest, but are always joyful.

(note: amount of $ doesn’t matter)

With regard to this line -

“The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.”

Love requires more than one person because it’s a free gift that requires freedom to respond.

It would be a lie to consider being self absorbed having any attribute of ‘love’. Lack of love creates it.

 

[1neophyte]

And an utterly selfish person will never become a terrorist, or a murderer…

Can you expound on what you mean by this? I can imagine a scenario where one murders a lover out of an utterly selfish jealousy. I suppose it just depends on how we define “selfish.”

 

[Bookcat]

No.

Not a virtue of selfishness.

There can yes be ordered self love --but that is contrary to selfishness (which is disordered self interest).

 

[Bookcat]

I have not read this book.

But here a book that could be related to your question:

scepterpublishers.org/products/self-esteem-without-selfishness-increasing-our-capacity-for-love

 

[PluniaZ]

Jesus was not selfish - he laid down his life for the whole world. It is Jesus that we are called to imitate.

He commanded his followers to leave everything - EVERYTHING - and follow him.

The early church in Acts had everything in common. Those who kept even a little for themselves were immediately put to death by the Holy Spirit. Acts 5:5.

Selfish people, after getting all the things they want, will simply be left with a sorrowful emptiness in their hearts.

1 I said in my heart: I will go, and abound with delights, and enjoy good things. And I saw that this also was vanity.
2 Laughter I counted error: and to mirth I said: Why art thou vainly deceived?
3 I thought in my heart, to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind to wisdom, and might avoid folly, till I might see what was profitable for the children of men: and what they ought to do under the sun, all the days of their life.
4 I made me great works, I built me houses, and planted vineyards,
5 I made gardens, and orchards, and set them with trees of all kinds,
6 And I made me ponds of water, to water therewith the wood of the young trees,
7 I got me menservants, and maidservants, and had a great family: and herds of oxen, and great flocks of sheep, above all that were before me in Jerusalem:
8 I heaped together for myself silver and gold, and the wealth of kings, and provinces: I made me singing men, and singing women, and the delights of the sons of men, cups and vessels to serve to pour out wine:
9 And I surpassed in riches all that were before me in Jerusalem: my wisdom also remained with me.
10 And whatsoever my eyes desired, I refused them not: and I withheld not my heart from enjoying every pleasure, and delighting itself in the things which I had prepared: and esteemed this my portion, to make use of my own labour.
11 And when I turned myself to all the works which my hands had wrought, and to the labours wherein I had laboured in vain, I saw in all things vanity, and vexation of mind, and that nothing was lasting under the sun.

Ecclessiastes 2

 

[mackbrislawn]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

Some people help others because they get a satisfaction out of it. That is a selfish motive.

Some people help others because Jesus commanded it, and following Jesus’ commands help you to get to heaven. That is a selfish motive

 

[Qoeleth]

Can you expound on what you mean by this? I can imagine a scenario where one murders a lover out of an utterly selfish jealousy. I suppose it just depends on how we define “selfish.”

I meant an ‘ideological’ or ‘religious’ terrorist.

Even murder for love is against total selfishness. A totally selfish person would say, “If she doesn’t love me, to h*ll with her- I’ll find someone who does.” So love (even psychopathic love) implies a certain amount on non-selfishness, and regard for others.

 

[fhansen]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

Well, that is what the world tends to, left to its own devices, without constraints. Dog-eat-dog, look out for number one. But, is it really workable? It could be said that all our major problems are caused by selfishness. If everyone had that “virtue” there’d be no end to war and competition. The ultimate outcome would be sheer loneliness, the opposite of love, because the logical chain of actions would lead to annihilating everyone but yourself!

Selfishness is inherently directly opposed to love because their purposes are at odds from the get-go. One attempts to achieve happiness by eliminating anything that it perceives as a threat to that happiness, with no restraints involved while the other strives for happiness by even being willing to sacrifice itself for the other.

 

[PluniaZ]

Some people help others because they get a satisfaction out of it. That is a selfish motive.

Some people help others because Jesus commanded it, and following Jesus’ commands help you to get to heaven. That is a selfish motive

What saint said this?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

This argument could be made only by an atheist, certainly not a Christian, since Christ tells us to love others as we love ourselves.

But certainly an atheistic egotist like Ayn Rand would agree with the philosophy you cite.

 

[STT]

I don’t agree with this premise at all really, but its been an argument I have been pondering for some time now.

Is selfishness a virtue? Are the truly, utterly selfish of the world, perhaps the people whose lives are the best and who are the happiest people out there?

If a persons number one priority is themselves they see to it they are taken care of. The best job, the best people, the best surroundings are all theirs for the taking.

The less time they spend thinking or worrying about the problems of other people, the more time they can devote to loving and improving their own lives.

How does one counter this argument? What do you make of it?

Selfishness is not rational. You can look at prisoner dilemma to see that it is true.

 

[John_Martin]

It sounds like the title could rather be written, “The BENEFITS of Selfishness”, which is what the argument puts forward: They get the best of everything, it is supposed.

The term “virtue” is often used in modern English in that sense.

But very few use “virtue” today to mean a “good habit that when you choose to use it makes you good and makes your work good” in the moral sense. Perhaps the only place you hear that is in a Catholic homily.

If a person at a table with others said, “I am going to eat virtuously with you”, would you see him grabbing all the Pizza, hoarding the wine bottle, etc.?
But if a person said, “I am going to eat selfishly with you”, would the activity end up the same?