The vocation and mortal sin

[Dr.Bombay]

Howdy.

I apologize if this topic has been covered before. But I did do a search and nothing came up. Nada.

Anyhoo, my question is this: If one knows one has a vocation (say, for example, a priestly vocation) and one does not pursue this vocation, is that a mortal sin?

Keep in mind this theoretical person knows for certain that he has a priestly vocation. There is no doubt in his mind that he has a vocation. He’s known it for years. It’s not a “maybe” or a “perhaps.” It’s a stone cold lead pipe lock.

And, no, this is not a question that can be discussed with a priest. They try to throw a cassock on ya the minute you broach the subject of vocation. Theoretically, I mean. We don’t want to go there.

I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t dance, qualify or expostulate (as some of you like to do). A simple yes or no will suffice.

Thanks. :tiphat:

 

[LilyM]

I don’t believe it is a sin, mortal or otherwise. I don’t believe that God has one and one only vocation in mind for each of us that we must follow.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

I don’t believe it is a sin, mortal or otherwise. I don’t believe that God has one and one only vocation in mind for each of us that we must follow.

That’s the stuff. Short and sweet. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Howdy.

I apologize if this topic has been covered before. But I did do a search and nothing came up. Nada.

Anyhoo, my question is this: If one knows one has a vocation (say, for example, a priestly vocation) and one does not pursue this vocation, is that a mortal sin?

Keep in mind this theoretical person knows for certain that he has a priestly vocation. There is no doubt in his mind that he has a vocation. He’s known it for years. It’s not a “maybe” or a “perhaps.” It’s a stone cold lead pipe lock.

And, no, this is not a question that can be discussed with a priest. They try to throw a cassock on ya the minute you broach the subject of vocation. Theoretically, I mean. We don’t want to go there.

I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t dance, qualify or expostulate (as some of you like to do). A simple yes or no will suffice.

Thanks. :tiphat:

Keep in mind that short is relative. This will be short and sweet considering it’s from me.

If a well-formed Cathlic conscience has to wonder, then it isn’t a mortal sin. Mortal sin is an obvious, conscious choice and you can’t fall into it accidentally. The Church alone finally determines if one has a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. Priests who leave are thought, by the Church herself, not to have vocation or she wouldn’t have released them. If it’s not something that the Church is able to difinitively point to and say “yea” or “nay” about, then I don’t see how it can be a mortal, grace-killing sin.

I think.

Anyway, you, on the other hand, definitely DO have a vocation (despite some of your young, stubborn, reactionary whippersnapper attitudes).

 

[Pug]

To deliberately refuse what you know to be God’s will (a “certain” vocation) would be a sin. I hypothesize that it could be grave, but since I know of no long-standing tradition of telling people that it is grave, then I must assume it not to be grave.

A scripture vaguely might be relevant, so don’t kill me that this is hence too long, okay? Just ignore the scripture if you like.

24 Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter;
25 so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.’
26 His master said to him in reply, 'You wicked, lazy servant!..

I’m not keen on the idea of the average person knowing they have a vocation to the priesthood without knowing an order or diocese will accept them.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Keep in mind that short is relative. This will be short and sweet considering it’s from me.

If a well-formed Cathlic conscience has to wonder, then it isn’t a mortal sin. Mortal sin is an obvious, conscious choice and you can’t fall into it accidentally. The Church alone finally determines if one has a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. Priests who leave are thought, by the Church herself, not to have vocation or she wouldn’t have released them. If it’s not something that the Church is able to difinitively point to and say “yea” or “nay” about, think I don’t see how it can be a mortal, grace-killing sin.

I think.

Anyway, you, on the other hand, definitely DO have a vocation (despite some of your young, stubborn, reactionary whippersnapper attitudes).

Me? Don’t be dragging me into this, Kirk. It’s strictly a theoretical construct. Though it might be interesting to hear your opinion on a person pursuing a vocation with a Society that currently has an irregular status with the Holy See. This is all just speculation, of course. But perhaps that’s a topic for another thread.

And the Church needs more reactionary priests. Ones who are willing to only pronounce the Canon sotto voce. Yes, stubborn too. And young. Just think, someday you may be able to walk into any Catholic church in the world and never hear a word of the Canon. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

I’m not keen on the idea of the average person knowing they have a vocation to the priesthood without knowing an order or diocese will accept them.

Yes. That’s my thinking exactly. The Church determines if a man has a priestly vocation, not the individual. Therefore, if the Church never has an opportunity to know, then no determination can be made and no sin is possible.

Which means, it’s best to keep your mouth shut. I think that’s what you’re saying.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Me? Don’t be dragging me into this, Kirk. It’s strictly a theoretical construct. Though it might be interesting to hear your opinion on a person pursuing a vocation with a Society that currently has an irregular status with the Holy See. This is all just speculation, of course. But perhaps that’s a topic for another thread.

And the Church needs more reactionary priests. Ones who are willing to only pronounce the Canon sotto voce. Yes, stubborn too. And young. Just think, someday you may be able to walk into any Catholic church in the world and never hear a word of the Canon. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

Yeah, but you’re all still well below 10% (the.1 figure was incorrect, NOT that .1 was 10%, for pity’s sake). And as for you or me or anyone else, God will have what God will have. Even I’m not so stubborn as to not know that. If God wants a priest from Econe in Rome, then He’ll find a way…even if it means pulling an entire stubborn, misguided society along for the ride.

My opinion is what was revealed to St. Juliana of Norwich: “All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Which means, it’s best to keep your mouth shut. I think that’s what you’re saying.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Yeah, but you’re all still well below 10% (the.1 figure was incorrect, NOT that .1 was 10%, for pity’s sake). And as for you or me or anyone else, God will have what God will have. Even I’m not so stubborn as to not know that. If God wants a priest from Econe in Rome, then He’ll find a way…even if it means pulling an entire stubborn, misguided society along for the ride.

My opinion is what was revealed to St. Juliana of Norwich: “All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.”

And I say it’s well over 10% and I have just as many facts to back up my opinion as you do to back up yours.

Stubborn and misguided is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. At least you’ve endorsed the Econe seminary. “All will be well” indeed.

 

[Unfinished]

No, I see no sin at all.

God calls vocations. He calls many who decide to persure other vocations.

I personally think God calls you to the vocation where you can A) Do the most good. B) Serve Him the best and C) Be the happiest.

Now, if you are called to be a priest and you get married, you can still do good and serve God and be happy, but God would of just used you the best in the priesthood.

Is it disobeying God? Maybe. It’s not like he sent you a signed and sealed letter saying “Dr., become a priest! It is My will!” Its clearly not as black and white as something like murder.

 

[Unfinished]

Just think, someday you may be able to walk into any Catholic church in the world and never hear a word of the Canon. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

Haha. Amen.

Maybe we can start the revolution?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

At least you’ve endorsed the Econe seminary. “All will be well” indeed.

Don’t make too far a jump there, Doc.

 

[demerzel85]

The first thing one should do if one thinks one has a vocation is to run, or try to ignore the call If there really is a vocation then the Call will continue to be present and at the end of the day one has to choose between answering “yes” or “no” to the Vocation.

Mortal Sin? Well I do not see how the condition of “full knowledge” can be fulfilled. For example, you only know you have the vocation once you are ordained. Even then sometimes after ordination one may still find that one is not really called.

I think this matter can be discussed with a Priest. Discussing it with an Ordothox Priest whose Order’s/Society’s Seminaries are full should not be a problem at all

And there I go again rambling.

 

[liberalcatholic]

I think it is important to remember that the present world gives us very small and limited possibilities but G-d does quite the opposite, for he truly wants the best for us. I believe a vocation comes through prayer and living “faithfully”. Do what you can, however small, as you are doing it for G-d and continue to search for truth since it is ultimately what we will live by. As Paul says continue to die to yourself everyday by praying for holieness and true repentence. We should first give ourselves over to G-d and then follow him by listening and obeying the authority he has set over us, since we are all a unique part of his creation and must work together. G o to church, go to confession, read the bible, pray the rosary and be in continuos conversation with the Lord. Remember that love is stronger than evil, and that we must continue to love, forgive, and spread the gospel. Pray for Pope Benedict, our priests, the religious orders and all the church for a more holy union in Jesus Christ our Lord.:knight2:

 

[macian]

I have to agree with what others have said, that choosing not to follow a vocation one might have is not a mortal sin. When deciding between religious life, married life, or single life, one is not choosing between a good act and an evil act, but rather between several goods. It is true there is one way of life we are each called to in a particular way, but on the other hand, choosing another path only means one may not be as happy as one might have been, or might not accomplish the good or grow in holiness as God intended; one still can do good and grow in holiness in the vocation one does choose.

Your question reminded me of the story of the rich young man; he was directly asked by Christ to follow after Him, and the young man turned away. Perhaps the young man changed his mind later, and returned, or perhaps he took the words to heart in some other way; in any case I have always gotten the sense that the young man was changed irrevocably by those words of Christ. I think it would be a harsh judgement to say the young man committed a mortal sin by refusing Christ’s call; at the time he simply had far too many attachments to his current way of life, and he was not free to selflessly respond to Christ’s call. Christ did not condemn the young man, but rather He used the young man’s refusal as chance to caution others about the danger of attachments. Had the young man’s refusal been a mortal sin, I imagine Christ would have rebuked him; instead He lets the young man go his own way.

Did the young man ever get to the point where he could sincerely answer Christ’s call? We don’t know, but we do have the words of Christ to His apostles, “For human beings it is impossible, but not for God. All things are possible for God.” God takes even the choices we make, which might not have been the best for us, and still brings good out of those choices. Imagine, almost 300 years later, the story of the young man in Mark’s gospel spoke to another young man, Anthony of Egypt, who did respond to the call of Christ!

 

[strugglingalong]

I’ve struggled in the past with thinking that if I don’t respond to God’s vocation for me that He’ll hate me and I’ll end up in hell. Now, God does call you to something: either to the married state, to priesthood, to religious life, to consecrated single life in the world. Whatever state He has called you to is the place you’ll most be able to love Him and do what is pleasing to Him; it’s the state where He has the most graces for you. If you reject it then you can still be saved but it may very well be more difficult.

Remember, a response to God’s call is an act of love. If God calls you to some state, it is because it is very good for your soul and because He wants you to be very near to His love for you. He asks you to accept it in love. It’ll make you the most happy in this life and in the life to come.

The reason why most people don’t think the rejection of a vocation is a mortal sin is because you’d need full knowledge. Breaking one of the ten commandments is a mortal sin because God has clearly revealed it. With a vocation, apart from an angel or a Saint or Jesus Himself appearing and telling you, you never really know 100%. There can be doubt. But if you have some reason to think He is calling you one way, and you reject it, you have to ask yourself: do I really love God? If I love God why would I reject His will? Loving God and doing His will cannot be separated.

I think to reject the vocation God has for us may be a venial sin and may also make our path to eternal beatitude with Him more difficult. The way He has for you is the best, the place you’ll be most assisted by Him and the place you’ll find the surest way to eternal life. He loves you. What He has for you is very good. Don’t fear His will.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[liberalcatholic]

Remember, a response to God’s call is an act of love. If God calls you to some state, it is because it is very good for your soul and because He wants you to be very near to His love for you. He asks you to accept it in love. It’ll make you the most happy in this life and in the life to come.

Yeah, this is what I have been lead to believe lately. I think that marriage like Paul said is good, but devoting your whole life to G-d is better. He meant good as in something that will bring positive things and keep one from sinning. If marriage is something you are drawn to I think G-d will bring someone in your life, though if you have a calling to the priest or sister that calling may be stronger than your calling to be married, though he says that a person should remain in the walk of life that he found G-d in. If he wants you to follow him to minister or to live a religious life your longing for that will strengthen. I guess to be anywhere else would mean that you are still in discerning. I have heard of priests that were first called to be married but when their wives died at an earlier age they became priests. I have also heard of anglican/orthodox priests that converted to catholicism and were married so got to be priests and remain priests, assuming they were raised in these churches (not 100% on this though). The Pope’s have said that the single life allows a priest or a brother/sister to be focused souly on their parishes and religious families.

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

Since the topic appears to have stirred some interest, I will allow this thread to continue. In general, however, CAF’s moderator policy is not to allow resurrected threads to continue. Please realize that some of the OP’s no longer post at CAF. I would ask all of you not to quote anything from 2006. Thanks.