The worst and most frustrating time of NFP

[TallyCatholic]

Is the several months after you’ve already had a new baby and are seriously trying to avoid another pregnancy. Its killer. So obviously the first 6 weeks post partum my wife and I weren’t supposed to “mess around”, but now we need to start establishing a fertility baseline, and since my wife went back to work and started pumping instead of breastfeeding we need to wait FOREVER to get this chart. Its already been two months, and I told her we’ll just have to wait until Christmas it seems

I’m just venting, it just seems like this is the most frustrating time of NFP. I mean we could definately chance it, but we’ve both decided now is not the time. So I guess we’ll get the flannel pajamas on, take a cold shower, and do nothing. How frustrating, oh well, thanks for listening.

 

[CatholicSam]

Do you mean to say you are waiting for the menstrual cycle to start back up before you have marital relations again? Mine never came back, and my fertility finally returned after 15-16 months when we conceived our second baby. You may be in for a long wait. There are other ways to check for fertility other than waiting for a period. You should check with your NFP teacher.

 

[TallyCatholic]

Do you mean to say you are waiting for the menstrual cycle to start back up before you have marital relations again? Mine never came back, and my fertility finally returned after 15-16 months when we conceived our second baby. You may be in for a long wait. There are other ways to check for fertility other than waiting for a period. You should check with your NFP teacher.

Yes, we are waiting for mentration. Because a women will in most cases ovulate before their first period. We are extremely fertile people, our newest son, Joseph, was conceived on what we thought was a safe day, and so far talking to several NFP teachers and showing them our chart have been told that he just might be one of those 1% that are conceived even though we did everything right.

Anyways, so now because we are seriously trying to avoid, and are very fertile, have to basically omit phase I and phase II. So because we don’t have a mentrual cycle to use we have to treat now as phase I, and basically we can’t risk it. If its been several months and we say its been too long, that next day she could ovulate without us knowing.

Its a tough situation, I agree I need to talk to people more about it, but I"ve studied the Art of NFP and basically we need to get a cycle back. I am worried by using their Phase I rules because it says on any “dry” night, and never two nights in a row, but what if we have marital relations on one night and then the next day she starts to have fluid. Even though the previous day she was dry, there is a possability my “boys” could stick around and she could ovuluate (its happened before, my son being the example). Sooooooo that’s the story, any suggestions or things I am missing are more than welcome!

 

[marybee]

Check out the Creighton Model fertility. it is highly scientific but does not use the temperature thing which can be irratic and totally confusing. It was invented by dr. hilger in Nebrask. do a google search. We just had a baby too and there really is no “waiting” for mensturation.

 

[annb]

www.creightonmodel.com I believe

 

[Em_in_FL]

I’ll just share a little of my own personal experience…
We use the Sympto-Thermal method as well…

After BOTH my pregnancies I ovulated BEFORE my first menstruation. I was also breastfeeding.

However, if I had been following my mucous signs only, we would have been in a similar predicament.
My method was to mostly check cervical position, and then cross check and confirm with mucous and temperature signs. And it was amazingly OBVIOUS when I ovulated.

I recommend looking into other Sympto-Thermal teaching material to broaden your knowledge on the subject. Personally for me, The ART of NFP wasn’t the best sourse.

God bless and good luck…

 

[stadre]

Yes, we are waiting for mentration. Because a women will in most cases ovulate before their first period. We are extremely fertile people, our newest son, Joseph, was conceived on what we thought was a safe day, and so far talking to several NFP teachers and showing them our chart have been told that he just might be one of those 1% that are conceived even though we did everything right.

Does your wife check for CM EVERY time (before and after) she goes to the bathroom? Does she make sure she “bears down” every evening? It is very possible to only observe CM one time. If she is not checking each time, it is possible to miss something.

Its a tough situation, I agree I need to talk to people more about it, but I"ve studied the Art of NFP and basically we need to get a cycle back. I am worried by using their Phase I rules because it says on any “dry” night, and never two nights in a row, but what if we have marital relations on one night and then the next day she starts to have fluid. Even though the previous day she was dry, there is a possability my “boys” could stick around and she could ovuluate (its happened before, my son being the example). Sooooooo that’s the story, any suggestions or things I am missing are more than welcome!

If there is no CM on a given day, there is no way for your boys to live long enough for it to appear. They will die very quickly without the CM as without it, they are in a very hostile place. But again, to be sure that she is dry, she would need to do ALL the observations. I strongly recommend you use the knowledge you have and couple it with some of the other resources listed here.

You are certainly in a difficult position, but you will be able to work through it.

 

[carol_marie]

My husband would agree with you that after the baby, that was the longest most frustrating time. :yup:

I hope it goes by quickly.

 

[TallyCatholic]

If there is no CM on a given day, there is no way for your boys to live long enough for it to appear. They will die very quickly without the CM as without it, they are in a very hostile place. But again, to be sure that she is dry, she would need to do ALL the observations. I strongly recommend you use the knowledge you have and couple it with some of the other resources listed here.

You are certainly in a difficult position, but you will be able to work through it.

Yeah that’s what we thought too. As you see below on our chart, both days that we had intercourse were dry days. Now there is a long lasting debate as to whether we conceived BEFORE my wife ovulated or AFTER. Either way both were dry days, so that logic doesn’t hold for us. There is a way that my boys can survive. I don’t know how but they do. Any insight into our chart is more than welcome, but understand the reason why we’re being so cautious is because of this chart.

sorry for all the writing over it.

http://www.cavnar.net/scan (Small).jpg

 

[vluvski]

There was a similar “surprise” chart in the Art of NFP book, where the temp pattern actually had two shifts. Even though you didn’t do anything wrong, hindsight shows that perhaps 97.5 was your LTL. On the other hand, that doesn’t really agree with the mucus pattern. Really does seem like you’re in the 1%.

You have an S on day 1 after peak. Does that mean stretchy? If you’re using customary notation, that symptom should have re-started your peak day count.

Just speculation, I’m not experienced by any means. I almost solely go off my CM and cervical position because my temps never want to go up and stay up.

 

[CatholicSam]

Our son’s name is Joseph too It seems like you really are that “1%” of couple who conceive even though following all the rules. So… even if you did everything “right” God still wanted to send you little Joseph and He made it possible, somehow, for conception to occur. Sarah and Elizabeth from the Bible conceived well after menopause God does this sometimes–helps a couple make a baby even though all the scientific facts point against conception at that time.

What makes you think that you are in control now? If God wants you to have another baby, He’ll send your wife her period, give you both peace of mind that you’re at an infertile time in the cycle, and then work His miracle again. Do you believe that God will send you a baby if you really can’t handle it? I think you should look into some other methods of NFP as Em suggested to cross-check various signs instead of relying on just one. As someone else pointed out, the day your wife thought was dry could have been a CM day that she just didn’t notice. NFP is 99% effective when used properly, and that 1% we leave open to God just in case His will is contrary to ours Good luck!

 

[bobtails]

After our daughter, we waited 3 months. It was so hard! I know how you feel. But looking back, it was really nice to fool around in other ways. Sometimes it seems like we rush to sex and miss out on the other things.

We are definitly NOT looking forward to abstaining that long this next time. Ugh!

 

[apricot_yogurt]

According to your chart, your wife’s shortest cycle was 26 days. With avoiding, I was told to use the s-20 rule, which is to take the shortest natural cycle in your case 26 days and minus 20 days to give you your last “safe” day i.e. day 6,providing you are still dry. Any intercourse past this date is considered more “risky”, and according to your chart, you went 3 days into this period. This would probably explain your son.

 

[C.T]

According to your chart, your wife’s shortest cycle was 26 days. With avoiding, I was told to use the s-20 rule, which is to take the shortest natural cycle in your case 26 days and minus 20 days to give you your last “safe” day i.e. day 6,providing you are still dry. Any intercourse past this date is considered more “risky”, and according to your chart, you went 3 days into this period. This would probably explain your son.

ITA. I have 26 day cycles (on average), and my daughter was conceived (unintentionally) on day 8 of a cycle. But, because of the s-20 rule we did know we were taking a chance; we just honestly believed it was incredibly small. But a day 9 baby isn’t surprising to me. What does surprise me a little is that it was a boy.

I know that this book doesn’t concern itself with God’s will and it does “allow” condom use, but the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility (tcoyf.com) is fantastic for explaining the way the cycle really works. Part of what changes in the vaginal environment as ovulation approaches is pH. Even if there are such small amounts of cervical fluid as to appear “dry,” the fact that by day 9 your wife was almost certainly providing a less-hostile environment in terms of the quality and acidity of the fluids, that the scantness of them wasn’t an insurmountable obstacle to the “boys.”

As for charting so that you can feel comfortable resuming sex, I’d suggest either exploring the Creighton method or checking out TCOYF. In my experience, the cervical openness and height were never helpful until after I had a baby. Your wife may have given up on checking that regularly if she, like me, didn’t preceive much difference when you were first married, but she may now.

 

[1ke]

Any insight into our chart is more than welcome, but understand the reason why we’re being so cautious is because of this chart.

sorry for all the writing over it.

http://www.cavnar.net/scan (Small).jpg

Using Creighton instructions, day 17 would have been a fertile day and should have been avoided. I think that is the day that did it.

 

[LittleDeb]

Yeah that’s what we thought too. As you see below on our chart, both days that we had intercourse were dry days. Now there is a long lasting debate as to whether we conceived BEFORE my wife ovulated or AFTER. Either way both were dry days, so that logic doesn’t hold for us. There is a way that my boys can survive. I don’t know how but they do. Any insight into our chart is more than welcome, but understand the reason why we’re being so cautious is because of this chart.

sorry for all the writing over it.

http://www.cavnar.net/scan%20(Small).jpg

Wow. Yup, Day 17 was right around her ovulation day.

I had multiple charts that look identical to this and have been abstaining during fertility successfully for about 2 years. My fertility returned 15 months ago (9 months post partum) and we resumed relations 6 weeks postpartum. With that in mind, I would like to chime in.

I use the STM method very successfully. I am not knocking Creighton (they know how to interpret CM very well!) But STM is going to work very well for your wife when she learns more about her body. Her temps are very important. I’ll explain in a moment. I am not a doctor, not even an NFP teacher, just a promotor. I promote it because it REALLY WORKS, and it is reeeeaallly healthy for a woman.

This is going to be one long post! Please forgive me. I am passionate!

First off, your wife has a low thyroid. This is very easy to see using STM. Any BBT below 97 is too low for a healthy woman. Her body is not able to store and “move” estrogen because of her thyroid. Her phase II is soooo unpredictable because her body has just enough estrogen to have signs of fertility but not enough estrogen to release an egg. I bet she is an ice cube on those mornings. I know I was! Kelp supplements will help bring her thyroid up. That temp on day 14 was showing she was finally building up enough estrogen to release an egg. She was entering her fertile phase here, not leaving it.

Second, she has scant cervical mucus. Unless she can produce a stretch, her CM is scant. She has enough to allow sperm migration, but probably not enough to ever have a truly lubricated feel. She might even have struggled with UTI’s and Yeast infections because of it. It makes reading CM very difficult because one can feel “dry” on a day of fertility. Get her flax oil pills (or better yet straight out of the bottle, but eeww, yuck I couldn’t handle it that way!) And feed her salmon until she thinks she might grow gills herself.

Thirdly, she has some inadequate luteal phases. Her corpus luteum is not putting out enough progesterone to maintain some of her phase III’s. A 26 day cycle is far more likely to be an inadequate luteal phase than an early ovulation especially looking at her other symptoms. Get her vitamin B6 supplements and pray she likes tomatoes. Tomatoes are very helpful in fixing luteal phases. Use freshly juiced if possible. Cooking or cooling tomatoes kills some of the benefits.

Lastly, she must learn to check for cervical height changes, firmness changes, and open/close changes. Post partum those are going to be her most reliable symptoms. STM users should not be afraid of the other signs. They are used for cross-check. STM users need to get a Creighton understanding of cervix and Creighton users need to check their temps for thyroid. We need to work together on this to help all women have as healthy lives as possible. God gave our bodies these wonderful markers of our health we need to really use them!

Yes sir, get TCOYF and ignore (big letters IGNORE) the contraception parts. The book that got me started in my research was Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon. Then I read most, if not all, her sources. Seek out a nutritionist and a doctor who will actually help her overcome her health issues not just try to mask them with artificial hormones.

Please use this time of abstinence to do the research. Help your wife to have the best health possible. I bet she just feels “fine” most of the time. She probably doesn’t even know what it is like to actually feel really good. She might even think that those horrible low temps are just normal. She might even not realize it is possible to really feel energetic. I used to just survive on adrenaline thinking I could just will myself to feel like everyone else seemed to feel. It made me so exhausted!

Okay. I think I am done. If any of this sounds familiar please feel free to PM me. As you can probably tell I am not shy and very passionate about this subject.

whew! I think I hurt my brain.

 

[mercygate]

Yes, we are waiting for mentration. Because a women will in most cases ovulate before their first period. We are extremely fertile people, our newest son, Joseph, was conceived on what we thought was a safe day, and so far talking to several NFP teachers and showing them our chart have been told that he just might be one of those 1% that are conceived even though we did everything right.

Anyways, so now because we are seriously trying to avoid, and are very fertile, have to basically omit phase I and phase II. So because we don’t have a mentrual cycle to use we have to treat now as phase I, and basically we can’t risk it. If its been several months and we say its been too long, that next day she could ovulate without us knowing.

Its a tough situation, I agree I need to talk to people more about it, but I"ve studied the Art of NFP and basically we need to get a cycle back. I am worried by using their Phase I rules because it says on any “dry” night, and never two nights in a row, but what if we have marital relations on one night and then the next day she starts to have fluid. Even though the previous day she was dry, there is a possability my “boys” could stick around and she could ovuluate (its happened before, my son being the example). Sooooooo that’s the story, any suggestions or things I am missing are more than welcome!

This is one of the reasons I love the fact that the Latin Church has celibate priests. I say to myself: If they can do this for a whole lifetime, then I can stand it for (fill in the blank)!

 

[LittleDeb]

http://www.cavnar.net/scan%20(Small).jpg

I just noticed the 6 days of menses too! Extended bleeding is another possible sign of phase II troubles caused by low thyroid. All those extended days of phase II are days just spent lining the uterus. We are always in one of 3 stages, 1. sloughing the old lining, 2. building the new lining. 3. maintaining the current lining. Another reason temps are important is because they signal the start of phase 1 by the sudden drop. Your wife’s high temp on day 1 shows it wasn’t an actual day 1. It was still phase III. Her lining got too thick and her body couldn’t maintain it. Her charted day 2 was actually day 1.

Six days of menses is another thing that can be fixed. It should be more like 4. Anything longer needs investigating. Looking at this chart, my heart just goes out to your wife. I bet all this has just been “normal” since puberty. I used to suffer this way too. Now I have 3 days menses and perfect 28 day cycles since fixing my thyroid. But oh I suffer if I forget my kelp during phase II. Lot’s of bleeding and a 40 day cycle await me when I forget.

 

[stadre]

Wow, LittleDeb, you have really done your research regarding this. As a teacher of Creighton (as I am sure you know), we don’t deal with temps in this way.

OP, LittleDeb has observed a lot of potential problems for you. Not having noticed your temps before, I would question those first 3 days of bleeding. They are spotting right? My guess is that her heavy or moderate bleed started on day 4. If she has 3 or more days of premenstrual spotting, she can put those days at the end of the previous cycle (longer post-ovulatory phase ).

While I encourage you to check out all your options, if you are looking at potential health problems, I strongly recommend Creighton for the health benefits. The doctors who work with that method can target test your wife’s hormones according to her actual cycle. Without full knowledge of her cycle, you can’t get accurate testing done. ie. Most labs results say that a normal luteal is in a range of around 4 - 28. If the ordering doctor doesn’t know or except that ovulation occured in that cycle on day 17 (for example) they won’t know how to read the results (and many just look for a number in that range).

I know this doesn’t help with your current problem, but perhaps looking into other options will give you both a better understanding of your fertility and your wife’s health which will either help you through this long period of abstaining or give you the confidence to use your infertile days (or both).

 

[I_question_God]

Is the several months after you’ve already had a new baby and are seriously trying to avoid another pregnancy. Its killer. So obviously the first 6 weeks post partum my wife and I weren’t supposed to “mess around”, but now we need to start establishing a fertility baseline, and since my wife went back to work and started pumping instead of breastfeeding we need to wait FOREVER to get this chart. Its already been two months, and I told her we’ll just have to wait until Christmas it seems

I’m just venting, it just seems like this is the most frustrating time of NFP. I mean we could definately chance it, but we’ve both decided now is not the time. So I guess we’ll get the flannel pajamas on, take a cold shower, and do nothing. How frustrating, oh well, thanks for listening.

The pill works wonders or even other methods talk to the Dr.