Theocracy and totalitarianism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Athanasiy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Athanasiy

Guest
What type of Theocracy can not be called as totalitarian ?
Are there examples of countries , or were there examples of the societies and countries which not used to be totalitarian by the practicing of theocracy ?
 
A totalitarian government bears a heavy connotation politically speaking. Totalitarian governments typically use strict force and emotional propaganda against its citizens. It would seem that a theocracy, on the other hand, would be contradictory in employing totalitarian propaganda in the running of its government.

I’m pretty sure Tibet was a non-totalitarian theocracy.
 
I understand that in ‘the society of theocracy’ the fornication and adultery must be the criminal offenses.
But when we put this theory into practice - the society will be totalitarian not theocratic one.

The life will be transformed to the ‘‘authoritarian fears’’ ,
‘’ pharisaism’ ’ , ‘’ army life’’ and , ‘’ prison or police mentality’ '.

Is there like a ’ golden middle ’ , how the
Christian society must live , by the practicing of freedom ?

If the major or absolute part of the population is not a Christian any more , does it mean that it is a time to realize that religion and politics in some specific matters are getting separate ?
 
Chorister said:
I’m pretty sure Tibet was a non-totalitarian theocracy.
Click to expand...
Tibet was not exactly a paradise before the arrival of the Chinese. Its people may have been happier, but in the 19th and early 20th centuries it was held up by Europeans as being an example of a people subjected to the worst excesses of superstitious and feudal dictatorship, a people enslaved by their own belief that their reward awaited them in the next life. Similar things could be said of the way Orthodoxy preached submission in the Russian Empire.

One (unusual) example of a non-totalitarian theocracy would be the Greek or Coptic ethnarchies within the Ottoman Empire. The Patriarch and the Coptic Pope were subservient to the Sultan, and could be personally dismissed or even executed by him for failure to control their people within the empire. For the average Greek under Ottoman rule, they would rarely come into contact with a Turkish official, but were ruled by their own religious leaders. The Patriarch thus had the triple role of advancing the interests of Greeks within the empire, looking after the spiritual well-being of the Greek population, and ensuring order and submission under Ottoman laws in the Greek lands. Same goes of the Coptic Pope and his people in Egypt, as well as the Chief Rabbi and Shi’a Imams. The rule was theocratic because it was the clergy who ruled, and ruled primarily in their role as spiritual leaders, but non-totalitarian because the clergy did not have absolute power, and their interest was not in subduing their people but advancing their interests within a broader society.
 
The adultery, witchcraft, idolatry , blasphemy , homosexuality ; are these offenses must be the criminal offenses today ?
 
Today, Iran is not a totalitarian country. However, it certainly is a theocracy. Sure it has elections, but all the candidates must be approved by a group of clerics, none of whom has ever been elected and whose decisions are not subject to review or appeal.
 
It seems that the societies and countries fates depend not on the religion but on the people’s education.
Or may be its better to say we must combine our religious faith with wisdom and the activity of the recover mind.

In the West Europe you do not see the violence against the ethnic , sexual or religious minorities , comparably with theocratic countries…

When I first has got to Europe from the ex-Soviet Union country , I was surprised that…
For example if you see the statistics in the non- Christian countries of the West Europe , many crimes are commited by the foreign people ,many of whom are from very religious countries.
Non - Christian West European countries have much higher level of culture , manners , honesty in the work ethics , respect to the law , social care for the people , less corruption … than in so called modern religious countries .

Of course the man in the West Europe is increasingly putting him self on the place of God , and taking from God , what belongs to God alone.
But on the other side , if we loose originality , creativeness , initiative , hard work and freedom in research , explorations , innovations which we find in our intellectual journeys … than religion does not help but damages.
When religion makes us dependent , not initiative , fatalistically submissive , then it brings damage to the mind , body and soul of the society and individuals.

But I am thinking about that theocracy in practice… When in the Christian history there was a not totalitarian society by the practicing of theocracy ?
 
Athanasiy said:
It seems that the societies and countries fates depend not on the religion but on the people’s education.
Or may be its better to say we must combine our religious faith with wisdom and the activity of the recover mind.

In the West Europe you do not see the violence against the ethnic , sexual or religious minorities , comparably with theocratic countries…

When I first has got to Europe from the ex-Soviet Union country , I was surprised that…
For example if you see the statistics in the non- Christian countries of the West Europe , many crimes are commited by the foreign people ,many of whom are from very religious countries.
Non - Christian West European countries have much higher level of culture , manners , honesty in the work ethics , respect to the law , social care for the people , less corruption … than in so called modern religious countries .

Of course the man in the West Europe is increasingly putting him self on the place of God , and taking from God , what belongs to God alone.
But on the other side , if we loose originality , creativeness , initiative , hard work and freedom in research , explorations , innovations which we find in our intellectual journeys … than religion does not help but damages.
When religion makes us dependent , not initiative , fatalistically submissive , then it brings damage to the mind , body and soul of the society and individuals.

But I am thinking about that theocracy in practice… When in the Christian history there was a not totalitarian society by the practicing of theocracy ?
Click to expand...
Umm… Have you heard of Nazi Germany? How about the Soviet Union under Stalin. Both were atheistic regimes. But murdered tens of millions of people.

Western European countries have their moral basis in Christianity. When they rejected that, as Germany did in the 1930s and 40s, we see what happens. They are rejecting that again, only now the price is baing paid by abortion, STDs and a collapse of family life. Political collapse is inevitable.

It is Christianity that teaches peace and forgiveness of enemies. Christianity has never been a political movement, always religious. Finally, the morality of Christians should not be compared too closely with the morality of other religions. And the individual moral choices made by an individual person do not always represent what a religion teaches each person to do.

To see a person who of comes from a region known for a particular religion commit a crime, in violation of that religion, then condemn the religion as the cause is nothing less than close-minded prejudice.
 
You are absolutely right.
Soviets and especially nazism in the twentieth century at the civilized continent of Europe are very striking arguments against the godless societies.
Also I think that all the best what the Europe has it is because of the Christian inspiration of the past.

On the surface , on the outward appearance of the seeming happy godless life , you can not see the loneliness , the tiredness from sin , the tortures and disfigured pains from sin , or slavery chains , may be golden but the chains of sin , the absurdness of the life’s tale , the absence of real inner joy , the loose of hope ….

There are a lot of things which the godless society is loosing …

But in the ongoing life , we see that the life of the society is about the search not certainty , but religion imposes the certainty what is in reality continues search.

It is possible to ignore the most important spheres of life by the fatalistic submission to the fate , and calling that false hope as a Gods will.
I am thinking about the definition of the Christian freedom for the modern society.

In my country among Evangelicals there are the radical groups which insist on the Christian laws in the politics .
But in the country where there is religious extremism , the country which needs to fight with the racism ,which needs to defend the rights of the women in the families , which needs to rise the level of culture , - extremely religious fanatics are dangerous .

I saw some videos , the public execution of the sinners in the theocratic countries of east, the religious police searching for the wrongdoers …
I am just thinking , what is the
Christian definition of totalitarianism ?
If God gave us freedom , how far should we go in judicial system of the society by practicing that freedom ?
Is the twenty first century not a prove that society requires change in understanding of freedom ?
What is the Christian country in the modern world which can be called as a Christian by following the God’s laws in their society ?
 
The same argument against Fascism-the example of mass murder-is equally usable against Communism and Democracy. Soviet and Chinese leaders slaughtered their own people, as are all the Western democracies through abortion. Western democratic atrocities are every bit as great in modern times as were the atrocities of the Germans, Russians or Chinese.
 
rpp said:
Today, Iran is not a totalitarian country. However, it certainly is a theocracy. Sure it has elections, but all the candidates must be approved by a group of clerics, none of whom has ever been elected and whose decisions are not subject to review or appeal.
Click to expand...
True, part of this is because the population will not allow it. They have been moving towards a more open society as the generation of 1979 grows older.

I think Saudi Arabia may fit that definition better. It is an extreme version of Islam placed their by the leaders to hold onto power and wealth.
 
In Netherlands , I have meat the man who was originally from the East.
He told me that if he would get back to his country , he could be killed , just for a leaving his country and applying the Dutch citizenship.
Europe , with its freedom , with its respect to the human rights is like a dream land for the people who can not even dream about their rights at their home countries.
The guy feels that Dutch air is the air where he can breath freely , being humanly free to say , to think , to do.

I look at the Netherlands , the country which has build their own idea of democracy .
The hedonistic values are taken under defense there , like no where else.
I do not agree with their idea of liberty and human autonomy there.

But it seems that in that freedom the old man feels like young there , in his old age he still conquers life…
The sick person who is about to die can stop his life from extreme suffering…
The invalid gets money from the government even for his personal pleasures…

( I do not justify this , I just say it as a facts )

As I mentioned the criminality , also the sexual violence is mostly committed by the foreigners , also the search for the social money in the country is not as high as among the foreigners .
Also , if to compare the statistics of aids , drugs using , I think it is not higher than… for example in Ukraine… if to compare the percentage level.
May be because people are informed often through the media that it is a social evil , and may be because of the culture of contraceptives .

If you are traveler , traveling every where .
When you travel in the Eastern countries.
Some times you feel after stepping your feet there , its like you get 100 years back. Its like to get to the other planet , to the other time measurement , to the different heaven above you.
Of course , a lot of people would say , that the people there are much nicer , very good natured , willing to help you even having a little , ready to share with you with the last bread they have.
But I mean if we talk about the freedom , the practicing of your God - given human freedom…

My question is , do we as a Catholics agree that theocratic society is the perfect society and exemplary society for all ages ?
Or we must consider the changes - marked by the twenty first century and reconsider how we should react to the changes happened in the society.
Again the same questions ;
The adultery, witchcraft, idolatry , blasphemy , homosexuality ; are these offenses must be the criminal offenses today ?
 
After I saw the videos of the public executions of the sinners in the modern theocratic countries , I started to question the possibility of theocracy and questioning of what is theocracy ?

For example exploring the things which are the social evils we can explore them from the two sides.

The legalized prostitution is the social evil. But illegal prostitution in the illegal places can be no less evil if to consider the danger for the life , venereal deseases ,and also corruption of the authorities which some times protect it by the different names…

Contraception is evil . But it helps to avoid the miseries in the desperate poverty and is lesser evil for many young families who are the students or who live in the poverty. And also it is helpful against the venereal deseases.

Divorce is the social evil.
But in some cases divorce is hundred times lesser evil than to stay in the marriage.

Homosexuality is social evil . But to use the violence in order to exterminate it - is also evil.

Abortion is evil. There is no way to justify this practice.
But how to understand that in Italy for example after the legalization of abortions - the quantities
of the abortions decreased ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top