Theocracy is most normal

[GregoryPalamas]

Jesus, when He returns, will rule the world. Until then, I do not believe a theocracy is a moral form of government. I’ll take the US government, thanks.

I had to read your profile thrice. Are you sure you stated your religion correctly?

CDL

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I have read the Ten Commandments and that is why I cannot understand how believing Christians in America can support the war in Iraq.

Am I wrong in thinking that Christians still believe in following the Ten Commandments?

The Catholic Church was against the Iraq war before it started, the Pope frequently speaks out against it.

The Ten Commandments were foundational principles in America until Protestantism started expanding and shifting the culture (along with the secular media) towards moral relativism. Dont confuse “Republican” with “Christian”.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

No religion or faith (including atheism) should be the official policy of the state.

No, that is in fact the most dangerous because with God pushed entirely out of the picture there are officially no grounds for personal security. The Soviet Union and China both prove that when God is pushed out of the picture then the individual is only “valuable” as long as he is “useful”, and when that happens many deaths result.

At least in America we still have God in the picture, even if His image is being distorted by the media. There are still enough good Christians in America to keep us from going off the tracks.

 

[Ella]

I had to read your profile thrice. Are you sure you stated your religion correctly?

CDL

What are you trying to say?

 

[quantumDeus]

The Catholic Church was against the Iraq war before it started, the Pope frequently speaks out against it.

The Ten Commandments were foundational principles in America until Protestantism started expanding and shifting the culture (along with the secular media) towards moral relativism. Dont confuse “Republican” with “Christian”.

Some people just don’t get that a sovereign nation/state has the right to wage war. In the Catholic doctrinal view, there are grounds for Just War. That the Pope speaks out about it is a reflection of his concern about the human tragedy that is occurring there.

However, insofar as international law goes, the US had causus belli to resume hostilities with Saddam’s regime after 12 years of often flagrant ceasefire violations from the 1991 war.

As a side note: Actually moral relativism is more popular among the Democrats, particular to the further left; and generally, the further right among Republicans, the more apt they are to see just good and evil (although it can surely be said that their definition of "evil’ is certainly subjective).

 

[paarsurrey]

Islam has a belief that I think we share. Namely, “Theocracy is the most normal form of government.” CDL

Hi
I think the above hypothesis is not correct. Islam does not believe in theocracy i.e, rule of the Clergy. Islam believes in a peaceful and just form of government, with equitable rights for every citizen.A Mulsim could live anywhere in the world, as a law abiding citizen of the State in secular matters.
Thanks

 

[quantumDeus]

Hi
I think the above hypothesis is not correct. Islam does not believe in theocracy i.e, rule of the Clergy. Islam believes in a peaceful and just form of government, with equitable rights for every citizen.A Mulsim could live anywhere in the world, as a law abiding citizen of the State in secular matters.
Thanks

Whooeee … what spin doctor did that come from?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Whooeee … what spin doctor did that come from?

You are most generous. Someday, if Islam conquers the world all will be at peace except for those who might disagree with whatever nutball out of the Arabian world decides is correct Islamic practice. There are many Muslims willing to live at peace I hope. There is evidence but who can tell what it means? But there are millions of Muslims quite willing to kill even the peace loving Muslims.

Again, Theocracy, rule by God not necessarily rule by clergy, is a standard doctrine in all three Monotheistic religions. How this doctrne is applied is different in each and in each setting but the principle is the same.

CDL

 

[Mirdath]

Someday, if Islam conquers the world all will be at peace except for those who might disagree with whatever nutball out of the Arabian world decides is correct Islamic practice.

Fine words from one who wants the world to be governed under the auspices of one whom some might call ‘whatever nutball out of Italy’! Save it – you’re no better than they, and paarsurrey’s attitude towards forms of government is actually far more reasonable than yours, even if it does not reflect that of radical Islam (and why should it? He is not a radical Muslim).

Again, Theocracy, rule by God not necessarily rule by clergy, is a standard doctrine in all three Monotheistic religions. How this doctrne is applied is different in each and in each setting but the principle is the same.

That it has been used in the past (I am dubious at best about calling it ‘a standard doctrine’) does not make it good or suited for the needs of all people. Religious warfare is also common to all three major Abrahamic religions; does that make it a good thing?

 

[Ella]

Fine words from one who wants the world to be governed under the auspices of one whom some might call ‘whatever nutball out of Italy’! Save it – you’re no better than they, and paarsurrey’s attitude towards forms of government is actually far more reasonable than yours, even if it does not reflect that of radical Islam (and why should it? He is not a radical Muslim).

That it has been used in the past (I am dubious at best about calling it ‘a standard doctrine’) does not make it good or suited for the needs of all people. Religious warfare is also common to all three major Abrahamic religions; does that make it a good thing?

You tell 'em, Mirdath.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Hi
I think the above hypothesis is not correct. Islam does not believe in theocracy i.e, rule of the Clergy. Islam believes in a peaceful and just form of government, with equitable rights for every citizen. A Mulsim could live anywhere in the world, as a law abiding citizen of the State in secular matters.
Thanks

Either you are living in dreamland, or you are playing us for fools.

Fine words from one who wants the world to be governed under the auspices of one whom some might call ‘whatever nutball out of Italy’! Save it – you’re no better than they, and paarsurrey’s attitude towards forms of government is actually far more reasonable than yours, even if it does not reflect that of radical Islam (and why should it? He is not a radical Muslim).

You dont know what you are talking about. The ideal Catholic form of government is no better? and it is less reasonable?
You are clearly living in dreamland.

 

[Mirdath]

You dont know what you are talking about. The ideal Catholic form of government is no better? and it is less reasonable?
You are clearly living in dreamland.

May I never awaken.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I gather there aren’t any theologians on this thread. That’s alright. Let it die.

CDL

 

[Mirdath]

I gather there aren’t any theologians on this thread. That’s alright. Let it die.

Oh, no, please, it’s much too entertaining

Come now! What are your thoughts on what makes the nutball out of Italy better than the nutball out of the Middle East? And how is the concept of theocracy, common to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, provably good, natural, and suited to the needs of humanity, compared to the concept of religious warfare, also common to all three religions?

 

[Allweather]

I’m not getting where “the idea of theocracy is… common to… Christianity.” My understanding, incomplete though it must be, is that Christianity has usually been implemented alongside of more-or-less secular governments. Within the Roman Empire, it was mostly illegal to be a Christian until after the early 4th century. It is true that, as the Roman Empire dissolved, the Papacy increasingly filled the void, as a matter of necessity, rather than as a precept of religion. In later centuries, this heavy involvement of papacy with government was proven unwise, and by the mid-19th century became a thing of the past, blessedly so.

Anyways, I do not see from history, or from Church teachings, an urge to theocracy. In fact, I see just the opposite. Jesus said, render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, and unto God what is God’s. I take it that Jesus was referring to a larger question than mere taxation by giving that reply.

 

[paarsurrey]

In fact, I see just the opposite. Jesus said, render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, and unto God what is God’s. I take it that Jesus was referring to a larger question than mere taxation by giving that reply.

Hi
I agree with your above passage.
And that would be the same as Islam/Quran/Muhammad say. Theocracy has no roots in Real-Islam.

The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam and Islam of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking moral and peaceful.

 

[Greg27]

No, that is in fact the most dangerous because with God pushed entirely out of the picture there are officially no grounds for personal security. The Soviet Union and China both prove that when God is pushed out of the picture then the individual is only “valuable” as long as he is “useful”, and when that happens many deaths result.

At least in America we still have God in the picture, even if His image is being distorted by the media. There are still enough good Christians in America to keep us from going off the tracks.

I disagree. When the state decides everyone must follow one and the same Absolute, whether it is God, Communism, Nazism, or even the State itself, and tries to enforce uniform belief in a certain ideaology or dogma using both law and its organs of power (such as the police, army, secret service, etc) you end up with Totalitarianism. The brutality of Iran and the Soviet Union under Stalin only differ in terms of what Absolutes they believed in and enforced uniformly on the population, not in terms of their lack of belief in God, or belief in God.

I cannot emphasize how dangerous it is when the State decides to legislate in terms of making its population uniformly follow a certain belief, especially when it comes to religion.