Theology, Philosophy and Psychology in Spirituality

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Fizendell

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As one who is fascinated by theology as well as philosophy and with the goal of completing my college degree in psychology, it always intrigues me as to how the three can become so intertwined. I am beginning to look for more information, whether it’s specifically writings by the Catholic Church or apologetics in general, and I noticed the posts at the top of the boards about “This Rock.”

I just finished reading the article, “The Curse of Wrong Alternatives” by Alice von Hildebrand in the January ’04 issue available online. I recently posted about the idea of returning to the Church and my fears of becoming judgmental (as has happened to me in the past.) After discussing this concept with my husband and reading this article, it’s quite amazing how the idea of NOT being judgmental has infiltrated our society.

Near the end of the article, Ms. Von Hildebrand writes:

“Intolerance is the capital sin—maybe the only sin. Once again, we face disastrous alternatives: on the one hand a bogus “love” that in fact means an indifference toward a sinner’s soul—“Let him live as he pleases” is definitely not an expression of love; it is a corollary of the rhetorical question of Cain, "Am I my brother’s keeper?” – and a rigid, legalistic attitude that is harsh and unloving. This attitude of laissez-faire is glorified as being a sound reaction to a pharisaical attitude of those who feel superior to others and have a keen satisfaction in keeping a tally on their neighbors’ sins…”

While it is clear that we are admonished to examine ourselves before judging our brothers and sisters, it is becoming more clear to me that when one seeks the Truth in God, one cannot help but to measure anything and everything in life against the Standard that has been set by God.

After all, how can we know how to live right, if we aren’t “supposed to” judge what is wrong?

Glad there are so many resources available to one who is spiritually searching!

=)
Fiz
 
Fenzdell,

Are you telling us that you have fallen away from the Church, and you are fearful of coming back to the Church because being a practicing Catholic will make you judgemental?

I read Von Hildebrand when her atricles appear in the “New Oxford Review”. But I do not put Hidebrand’s writtings above the Catechism! I like her commentary on members of the clergy, but she is not a spokesman for Holy Mother Church.

Truthfully, if you value some kind of “feelings” of being judgemental over recieving the sacrements of the Catholic Church, then I think you are misguided. “Feelings” are just that - “feelings”, not dogma of the Church. It is easily solved. When you pray, ask for the grace to be less judgemental - be SPECIFIC. And get yourself back into the Church. From your words isn’t it true that you will come back? Come on back.
 
Hi Fizendell,

If you are interested in philosophy and theology, then the first thing I would recommend to you is Holy Father John Paull II’s encyclical letter “Fides et Ratio” (On Faith and Reason).

You can read it online here:

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0216/_INDEX.HTM
 
Exporter:

Yes, I have been away from the Church for almost 20 years now. I have experienced other (Protestant) churches in that time and found myself becoming very self-righteous and judgmental and frankly it drove me away from those churches. I have not been a participant in the Catholic Church since I was a teenager.

Recently, through much self-examination, I have found myself being drawn back to the Catholic Church and find it quite astounding, since I thought I would never go back!

I have a strong interest in psychology and philosophy and have always enjoyed theology. Along the way I thought that religion just got in the way of things and I didn’t need it.

I am feeling drawn back to the Church, nonetheless.

I was also just making note that reading such articles are thought-provoking, especially when Scripture points me in the right direction.

I have been thinking more and more, especially while reading these boards, that it isn’t consensus of many anonymous online folks that are going to give me the answers I’m seeking. The answers I’m seeking will be found in actually going to church, reading the Bible and asking God.

I enjoy these forums very much and have thought long and hard today that maybe I should put my feet where my words are and go to the Stations of the Cross service tonight and Mass this weekend.

It’s a long road, this “coming back”…

Oh, and Mtr - thanks for the link, I look forward to reading it!

=)
Fiz
 
Jesus says judge not lest ye be judged. But He also says take the log out of your own eye and then you’ll see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers.
I suppose what our Lord wants is for us to first look at ourselves before we try to correct others. A priest has to continually judge others in order to absolve their sins.
Look at the spiritual works of mercy. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

The spiritual works of mercy are:
When, rather than condemning the sinner, you are trying to practise one or more of these it is honourable.
Our Lord certainly condemned wrong doing, sin etc. But He showed great mercy and compassion to the sinner. We are to model ourselves on Him. Hope this helps.
 
John Russell Jr:
Jesus says judge not lest ye be judged. But He also says take the log out of your own eye and then you’ll see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers.
I suppose what our Lord wants is for us to first look at ourselves before we try to correct others. A priest has to continually judge others in order to absolve their sins.
Look at the spiritual works of mercy. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

The spiritual works of mercy are:
When, rather than condemning the sinner, you are trying to practise one or more of these it is honourable.
Our Lord certainly condemned wrong doing, sin etc. But He showed great mercy and compassion to the sinner. We are to model ourselves on Him. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
This very impressive post is an example of one of the reasons I find theology to be more satisfactory, and deeper, than philosophy - theology is harder to put into practice than philosophy, it’s a step above.
 
Dear KevinWalker,

Are you familiar with the saying: “Philosophy is
the handmaid of theology”?
I took my degree *many *years ago in philosophy,
because I wanted to know what man could
understand with “unaided” reason…i.e., without
revealed truth.
Concurrently, I took several courses in theology.
I found that an understanding of philosophical
terminology aided me immensely in theological
studies.
I’ve coined the phrase: Mathematics is the
handmaid of science. Try studying physics
without calculus and watch the fun begin!
Best wishes,
reen12
 
Dear friend

It’s a simple as this, it is only hypocrisy that tells another person not to have sex outside of marriage if you yourself are having sex outside of marriage…(That’s an example, I’m not implying you are!!🙂 ) If you live a righteous life then it is one of the corporal works of mercy to inform another of what sins they are living in. They might not want to listen to you, they may ignore what you say and proceed with the sin, on the other hand you may open their eyes and in telling them draw them closer to God’s Holy Will, but if you love them and want to see them enter heaven in as much glory as possible, you will tell them that their behaviour is a sin.

On the other hand if someone does not know that they are committing a sin then it is not a sin at all, this however is no just nor good reason to allow them to live as they are and not proclaim the Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is not judgemental it is RIGHT THINKING. But we ourselves must not be the sinner of such sins and then say to another do not committ such things. Being judgemental is when a person is hated for their sins, is marginalised for them and made to feel no good at all, this is not love and this is not mercy. This is sheer judgemental behaviour. To be right thinking is to love and include all people’s, to admonish the sin, but not the sinner. Christ Jesus admonishes the sin, but dearly loves the sinner.

On a psychological level, people do not like it when they are told they are living in a certain sin as the human mind tends to define their very ‘self’ by what they do…‘I am a banker’ ‘I am a drug addict’ ‘I am a soldier’ ‘I am a richman’ etc etc and not who they are ‘I am a child of God’ ‘I am a human being in being so I am sacred’ etc etc, so be warned when you go about telling those who sin what their sins are you may be disliked or even hated for it, accused of all things and even persecuted for it, ‘Isend you out as sheep among wolves, be as wise as serpants and gentle as doves’ This means use prudence in how you talk to people, be careful to protect yourself and your good name and most of remember that not everyone you tell will accept nor treat you well for it.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
reen12:
Dear KevinWalker,

Are you familiar with the saying: “Philosophy is
the handmaid of theology”?
I took my degree *many *years ago in philosophy,
because I wanted to know what man could
understand with “unaided” reason…i.e., without
revealed truth.
Concurrently, I took several courses in theology.
I found that an understanding of philosophical
terminology aided me immensely in theological
studies.
I’ve coined the phrase: Mathematics is the
handmaid of science. Try studying physics
without calculus and watch the fun begin!
Best wishes,
reen12
Click to expand...
Hello reen12,

I’ve had a similar life observation experience. I spent four years in the Navy as a diver [1979]before spending eight years in college earning my BA in Psych and a masters in History[1987]. Years later after a series of interesting life experiences and some world travel, the most important and influential subject I took turned out to be the Philosophy courses.
Those several courses in Philosophy have helped me more in life than anything else I took in college; yet Theology has struck me as more profound and more difficult than Philosophy. I now view Philosophy and science as mere tools for the technician, and Theology as the discipline for the scholar.
I’ve just about gone full circle returning to my original roots as a[Roman] Catholic, having researched no other theology which impresses me more than Catholicism.

P.S. I’ve entered into many debates with physicists here at Boston area colleges, and they haven’t a clue. I find them to be glorified mechanics.
 
40.png
Fizendell:
As one who is fascinated by theology as well as philosophy and with the goal of completing my college degree in psychology, it always intrigues me as to how the three can become so intertwined. I am beginning to look for more information, whether it’s specifically writings by the Catholic Church or apologetics in general, and I noticed the posts at the top of the boards about “This Rock.”

I just finished reading the article, “The Curse of Wrong Alternatives” by Alice von Hildebrand in the January ’04 issue available online. I recently posted about the idea of returning to the Church and my fears of becoming judgmental (as has happened to me in the past.) After discussing this concept with my husband and reading this article, it’s quite amazing how the idea of NOT being judgmental has infiltrated our society.

Near the end of the article, Ms. Von Hildebrand writes:

“Intolerance is the capital sin—maybe the only sin. Once again, we face disastrous alternatives: on the one hand a bogus “love” that in fact means an indifference toward a sinner’s soul—“Let him live as he pleases” is definitely not an expression of love; it is a corollary of the rhetorical question of Cain, "Am I my brother’s keeper?” – and a rigid, legalistic attitude that is harsh and unloving. This attitude of laissez-faire is glorified as being a sound reaction to a pharisaical attitude of those who feel superior to others and have a keen satisfaction in keeping a tally on their neighbors’ sins…”

While it is clear that we are admonished to examine ourselves before judging our brothers and sisters, it is becoming more clear to me that when one seeks the Truth in God, one cannot help but to measure anything and everything in life against the Standard that has been set by God.

After all, how can we know how to live right, if we aren’t “supposed to” judge what is wrong?

Glad there are so many resources available to one who is spiritually searching!

=)
Fiz
Click to expand...
I really like that quote by Alice von Hildebrand. It’s a very accurate statement of how many in our culture perceive things - and the parallel to “am I my brother’s keeper?” makes a lot of sense to me. In a class I took once, the professor said that when Cain asked that question, it was unanswered at that time. But throughout the context of the whole Bible, that question was answered with a resounding yes, we are called to be our brother’s keeper.

I find psychology, theology, and philosophy fascinating as well and that they intertwine a great deal. My bachelor’s degrees are in theology and psychology, and I’m working on a master’s in social work in fact so I definitely hear where you’re coming from. Unfortunately psychology can get twisted into the whole moral-relativism thing a lot of times. But there are some great resources out there. If you’re looking for reading, I’d highly recommend anything by Father Benedict Groeschel. If you’re not familiar with him he’s an awesome devoted Franciscan priest and psychologist. “Stepping Stones” and “The Courage to Be Chaste” are both great books that combine his knowledge and practice of psychology with Catholic theology, but he has written many others as well. Also, anything by Greg Popcak is excellent as well. He’s a Catholic marriage and family therapist and combines the different fields so beautifully.

Let me know if you have any questions or want to talk about this subject further! God bless.
 
Dear KevinWalker,

Thank you for your reply to my post above.

I have come to the conclusion that the word
‘clueless’ is priceless in accurately describing many
individuals in the post-modern West.

How about: Man does not live by technology alone.

Also wanted to tell you that the most valuable book
I read in college was Fitzmeyer’s small work on
St. Paul. Can’t for the life of me remember the
title.

Best regards,
reen12

PS Navy diver, huh? Now that’s got to be
interesting work. Thank you for your service
to our country.
 
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