There are some Catholics I know

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funion987

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There are some Catholics I know that go to Mass regularly, but choose to frequently drink underage (I’m in college). Now, it’s possible that, like me a while back, they might not know that we are required to follow the just laws of the state.

Two questions: Should I assume this? Should I say anything?
 
funion987 said:
There are some Catholics I know that go to Mass regularly, but choose to frequently drink underage (I’m in college). Now, it’s possible that, like me a while back, they might not know that we are required to follow the just laws of the state.

Two questions: Should I assume this? Should I say anything?
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Having a glass of wine or a beer before you are 21 is in the same level as speeding, IMO. I personally wouldn’t say anything unless it is done excessively.
 
Getting hammered in College bars, and having a decorous glass of wine with one’s parents at a family meal are two different things.

I’m sure it’s legal for a child to have an appropriate amount of alcohol in a family setting. It’s never appropriate for anyone to get hammered.

Should you say anything? If they are drinking and driving, absolutely; if they are drinking in bars and using false ID probably; if they are getting drunk in a dorm probably; if they are having a glass of sherry with their grandmother then butt out.
 
triumphguy said:
Getting hammered in College bars, and having a decorous glass of wine with one’s parents at a family meal are two different things.

I’m sure it’s legal for a child to have an appropriate amount of alcohol in a family setting. It’s never appropriate for anyone to get hammered.

Should you say anything? If they are drinking and driving, absolutely; if they are drinking in bars and using false ID probably; if they are getting drunk in a dorm probably; if they are having a glass of sherry with their grandmother then butt out.
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This.
 
As a college student who turned 21 recently and didn’t drink until then, I’m in a relatively unique position to answer this question.

I never went out of my way to talk with people about their drinking habits because it is so commonplace in college.

That being said, I was absolutely open about the fact that I did not drink. When anyone asked me why I didn’t drink, I would be honest with them and give them my reasons (which actually had little to do with religion). No one reacted poorly to this and more than a few times they said that they wished they had that type of self control.

What I’m getting at is that you will not get anywhere if you act holier-than-thou. Be honest, be open, but don’t be unfriendly/incredibly forward in the way that you go about addressing these issues unless they are endangering themselves and/or others. It’s a delicate balance and it’s up to you to tip the scales as you see fit.
 
funion987 said:
There are some Catholics I know that go to Mass regularly, but choose to frequently drink underage (I’m in college). Now, it’s possible that, like me a while back, they might not know that we are required to follow the just laws of the state.

Two questions: Should I assume this? Should I say anything?
Click to expand...
Feeling sanctimonious are we?
 
triumphguy said:
Getting hammered in College bars, and having a decorous glass of wine with one’s parents at a family meal are two different things.

I’m sure it’s legal for a child to have an appropriate amount of alcohol in a family setting. It’s never appropriate for anyone to get hammered.

Should you say anything? If they are drinking and driving, absolutely; if they are drinking in bars and using false ID probably; if they are getting drunk in a dorm probably; if they are having a glass of sherry with their grandmother then butt out.
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This. 👍
 
funion987 said:
There are some Catholics I know that go to Mass regularly, but choose to frequently drink underage (I’m in college). Now, it’s possible that, like me a while back, they might not know that we are required to follow the just laws of the state.

Two questions: Should I assume this? Should I say anything?
Click to expand...
well where do you draw the line, if you keep silent about that, will you keep silent about someone smoking pot or sniffing cocaine? if so what if someone you know smokes pot, and because you don’t make it clear where you stand on the issue, you end up getting pulled over and then have to be worried about someone having illegal possessions on them…what if you turn 21 and a friend who is 20 asks for some alcohol and you end up with a 5,000 fine because they are underage…even if you don’t think anyone will listen, at least you can do it to your benefit and they know where you stand…it would be a huge feat in the eyes of the lord to say something because you know you are going to get hell from other people b/c of it, ppl are likely to ridicule you and make fun of you, but since you are doing it for the Lord, you will have your reward in heaven
 
triumphguy said:
Getting hammered in College bars, and having a decorous glass of wine with one’s parents at a family meal are two different things.

I’m sure it’s legal for a child to have an appropriate amount of alcohol in a family setting. It’s never appropriate for anyone to get hammered.

Should you say anything? If they are drinking and driving, absolutely; if they are drinking in bars and using false ID probably; if they are getting drunk in a dorm probably; if they are having a glass of sherry with their grandmother then butt out.
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What I should make clear is that the acts that I am talking about are not inherently sinful, unlike drinking and driving, getting drunk, committing fraud, etc. One can easily see why these things are wrong and are wrong in any state. However, if an eighteen-year-old goes to nearly any country outside the US, he can moderately drink with no state or moral consequences. But the moral consequences here stem from the specific laws in the US.

As breaking these just laws is grave matter, it comes down the whether the sin is mortal or venial, based on if he knows the Church teachings on obeying the law. I think sin should be avoided. Should I alert him that the Church says you should obey the (morally neutral) laws?
 
funion, I’m not so sure we can conclude, as you have, that “breaking just laws is grave matter.” If that were true, breaking any civil law would alway equate to mortal sin, if you also knew that breaking the law were done with full consent – no matter how silly or morally neutral the law might be, like spitting on the sidewalk or whatever (google “crazy laws still on the books” and you’ll see what I mean).

IMHO many laws are morally neutral, and we are obliged to follow them only out of respect for a general desire to reduce lawlessness and chaos. However, that does NOT mean that breaking these laws is grave matter."

Triumphguy said it best.

As an aside, I NEVER drink in social settings when others do, outside a glass of wine maybe 3-4 times/year. When people ask me why I’m not drinking, I often smile and say - because it’s 100% true - “I like to remain sober while those around me drink, since it’s fun to watch what happens.”

I have never EVER heard any decent response to this…
 
I agree with Von Der Tann. I find it absolutely ludicrous that young people in the USA can vote at 18 and can enter the military without parental consent, but cannot legally buy or consume a beer.
One must realize that all local laws regulating the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages are not for the protection of the people, no matter how the authorities “spin” it.
They are based on a puritanical belief that imbibing alcohol is sinful and if alcohol cannot be prohibited it must be strictly controlled. The fact is, most of our alcohol control laws did not exist before prohibition in 1919. These laws came into existance after prohibition ended in 1932 as a compromise so that the anti-alcohol groups like the WTCU would not do further damage to American society.
These “Drys” are also historically responsible for the nasty hodge-podge of anti-immigration laws we currently have. They resented immigration from Ireland, Italy, Poland, and all of Latin America because they were not only Catholic, but they saw nothing wrong with the sensible enjoyment of alcohol, and some of them (Horrors!) drank beer or wine with their meals (Oh the shame of it all!)
In many of the countries in Europe, South America, and Asia, the legal drinking age is 16. It is only in the US that a 16 year old is still considered a child. Everybody in officialdom has forgotten that when you make something “bad” for the young you only make it more attractive.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
I agree with Von Der Tann. I find it absolutely ludicrous that young people in the USA can vote at 18 and can enter the military without parental consent, but cannot legally buy or consume a beer.
One must realize that all local laws regulating the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages are not for the protection of the people, no matter how the authorities “spin” it.
They are based on a puritanical belief that imbibing alcohol is sinful and if alcohol cannot be prohibited it must be strictly controlled. The fact is, most of our alcohol control laws did not exist before prohibition in 1919. These laws came into existance after prohibition ended in 1932 as a compromise so that the anti-alcohol groups like the WTCU would not do further damage to American society.
These “Drys” are also historically responsible for the nasty hodge-podge of anti-immigration laws we currently have. They resented immigration from Ireland, Italy, Poland, and all of Latin America because they were not only Catholic, but they saw nothing wrong with the sensible enjoyment of alcohol, and some of them (Horrors!) drank beer or wine with their meals (Oh the shame of it all!)
In many of the countries in Europe, South America, and Asia, the legal drinking age is 16. It is only in the US that a 16 year old is still considered a child. Everybody in officialdom has forgotten that when you make something “bad” for the young you only make it more attractive.
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I like this. You made excellent points.

As a trend I’m observing that many otherwise orthodox Catholics are buying into a many (though not all) of the socio-political values of the American right for the sake of “prudence”. That’s okay. That, however, should never be confused with Catholic orthodoxy. I think this discussion may involve an instance concerning that very thing.

God bless,

Rob
 
I assure you that anyone who is drinking underage while in college understands that they are not supposed to be. I think you should be happy they still go to Mass, and pray that they act responsibly.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
I find it absolutely ludicrous that young people in the USA can vote at 18 and can enter the military without parental consent, but cannot legally buy or consume a beer.
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You’ve persuaded me: let’s raise the voting age and require parental consent for joining the military.
 
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