there were different jewish sects, why can't there be different Christian denomitions

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bengal_fan

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just curious how you folks would answer this. since there were different Jewish sects, which had many theological differences, but were all considered Jewish, then why can’t we have different Christian denominations, with theological differences, and still work together as Christians. i know some of the catholics here will say (and i am one of them) that they are Christians, but there are others who say they aren’t. i just want to see how you folks answer the correlation between the differing Jewish sects and the Christian denominations.
 
because Christ said unto PETER “You are ROCK and Upon this ROCK I will build my church”. He did not say it to Martin Luther, Joseph Smith or any other “founders” or “prophets”. He said it to Peter, one of his apostles.
 
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bengal_fan:
just curious how you folks would answer this. since there were different Jewish sects, which had many theological differences, but were all considered Jewish, then why can’t we have different Christian denominations, with theological differences, and still work together as Christians. i know some of the catholics here will say (and i am one of them) that they are Christians, but there are others who say they aren’t. i just want to see how you folks answer the correlation between the differing Jewish sects and the Christian denominations.
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The reason that their can’t be different Christian sects is because the bible calls the Church “The pillar and foundation of Truth”. Since truth is singular, that is contradictions cannot be true, the idea that their can be competing churches teaching contradictory doctrines is utterly absurd in the face of the fact that the Church is the Pillar and foundation of truth. Besides the bible says that their is “ONE FAITH, on Lord, one baptism, one God and Father of us all.” (Ephesians). Also, St. Pauls commands that their be no factions or divisions among the faithful. Finally, the Church is the Body of Christ and their is only one Christ so there can only be one Church. He has only one bride.
 
We can call our separated brethren Christians if they share in the trinitarian baptism of the Church. That is their sole claim to being truly Christian (even if they don’t know it). But, the Body of Christ is one, therefore we should be one in our faith and practice.
 
Perhaps this is why Jesus came when he did - to unite us all.
 
It was my understanding that the Jews at the time were all subject to the “Seat of Moses” (Matthew 23:1-4). I see it as similar to the different rites within the Catholic Church. There certainly was quite a bit more diversity of theological opinions but still had a high priest to look to.
 
There are different sect or rites in the Catholic Faith just not different denominations.
 
Jesus did say that “upon this rock I will build my Church”…not “all of my Churches.” There can be only the one Church that was established then by Jesus Himself as ordered by God our Father…, and it remains so to this day. All of the other Christian denominations carry some of the truths of this Church but have chosen to disregard or alter some of it in order to establish the very Church that they established for what ever reasons they felt were important.
Therefore it is simply terrible that we as Christians has splintered off into so many directions…
 
Hi all!

Yes, there have been/are many Jewish “sects” both historically (Sadducees, Essenes, etc.) and currently (the so-called “Reform”, “Conservative”, “Reconstructionist”, “Flavor-of-the-Monthist” :rolleyes: , etc. movements). While some/many/most of their members may have been/are Jews, what they believe & practice is surely and simply not Judaism. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox (orthodoxy being a far broader spectrum than many non-Jews, and many non-orthodox Jews, seem to realize; see jewfaq.org/movement.htm#US for a good summary on orthodoxy & the other, so-called, “movements” within Judaism).

Historically, the Sadducees & Esseners were heretics. (The Pharisees embodied normative Judaism then, much as their direct descendants & heirs, i.e. our more modern orthodox Sages, embody it today.) Currently, the Reform, Conservative & Reconstructionist “movements” are newfangled movements that developed in Europe, in reaction to the Enlightenment. They have junked so many core Jewish beliefs and, in effect, make it up as they go along, influenced by whatever happens to be trendy at the moment & taking care to be “politically correct”. This is Judaism??!! Orthodox Judaism believes that the Torah comes from God; the Reform movement does not. The Conservative movement tries to straddle a middle ground that does not exist. If one does not believe that the Torah is from God, then what’s the point? Judaism is not, and never has been, an everyone-for-him/herself religion. Orthodoxy recognizes that there is a certain set of core beliefs that are immutable & which serve to bind all Jews everywhere, much as they have for thousands of years.

So, while there are/have been many Jewish sects, there is only one authentic Judaism (i.e. orthodoxy).

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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bengal_fan:
just curious how you folks would answer this. since there were different Jewish sects, which had many theological differences, but were all considered Jewish, then why can’t we have different Christian denominations, with theological differences, and still work together as Christians. i know some of the catholics here will say (and i am one of them) that they are Christians, but there are others who say they aren’t. i just want to see how you folks answer the correlation between the differing Jewish sects and the Christian denominations.
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Good question 😃 - I have no idea. 🙂​

It’s a measure of the Gospel’s penetration of society that the reasons we - the different Churches - are criticised often come from the Gospel. ##
 
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stillsmallvoice:
Hi all!

Yes, there have been/are many Jewish “sects” both historically (Sadducees, Essenes, etc.) and currently (the so-called “Reform”, “Conservative”, “Reconstructionist”, “Flavor-of-the-Monthist” :rolleyes: , etc. movements). While some/many/most of their members may have been/are Jews, what they believe & practice is surely and simply not Judaism. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox (orthodoxy being a far broader spectrum than many non-Jews, and many non-orthodox Jews, seem to realize; see jewfaq.org/movement.htm#US for a good summary on orthodoxy & the other, so-called, “movements” within Judaism).

Historically, the Sadducees & Esseners were heretics. (The Pharisees embodied normative Judaism then, much as their direct descendants & heirs, i.e. our more modern orthodox Sages, embody it today.) Currently, the Reform, Conservative & Reconstructionist “movements” are newfangled movements that developed in Europe, in reaction to the Enlightenment. They have junked so many core Jewish beliefs and, in effect, make it up as they go along, influenced by whatever happens to be trendy at the moment & taking care to be “politically correct”. This is Judaism??!! Orthodox Judaism believes that the Torah comes from God; the Reform movement does not. The Conservative movement tries to straddle a middle ground that does not exist. If one does not believe that the Torah is from God, then what’s the point? Judaism is not, and never has been, an everyone-for-him/herself religion. Orthodoxy recognizes that there is a certain set of core beliefs that are immutable & which serve to bind all Jews everywhere, much as they have for thousands of years.

So, while there are/have been many Jewish sects, there is only one authentic Judaism (i.e. orthodoxy).

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
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Sounds familiar?

Thanks for the explanation.
 
Hi Tonks40!

I thought that it might sound familiar to a Roman Catholic.

You’re welcome!

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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bengal_fan:
just curious how you folks would answer this. since there were different Jewish sects, which had many theological differences, but were all considered Jewish, then why can’t we have different Christian denominations, with theological differences, and still work together as Christians. i know some of the catholics here will say (and i am one of them) that they are Christians, but there are others who say they aren’t. i just want to see how you folks answer the correlation between the differing Jewish sects and the Christian denominations.
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Actually, that’s a really good question. What I found is that the main religions have orthodoxy and heterodoxy - pure and simple. There’s a conservative group and a liberal group. There’s traditionalists and progressives. There has to be an objective truth in there - it’s just finding it that is so difficult.

The truth is we have different denominations for different reasons just as Jews and Buddhists have different denominations - each claiming they have the truth. There’s not been one religion that I can think of that is without sectarianism. If it’s not now - it will be at some point. I believe it’s just the basic human condition.

Peace…
 
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ahimsaman72:
Actually, that’s a really good question. What I found is that the main religions have orthodoxy and heterodoxy - pure and simple. There’s a conservative group and a liberal group. There’s traditionalists and progressives. There has to be an objective truth in there - it’s just finding it that is so difficult.

The truth is we have different denominations for different reasons just as Jews and Buddhists have different denominations - each claiming they have the truth. There’s not been one religion that I can think of that is without sectarianism. If it’s not now - it will be at some point. I believe it’s just the basic human condition.

Peace…
Click to expand...

“Party X” may be “traditional” or “conservative”, but neither is a guarante of “orthodoxy”. St. Paul was most “untraditional” in some ways when he insisted that the Gospel was for the Gentiles on exactly the terms as the Jews. And what was unthinkably daring to some at some time, can itself become a rigid & deadening orthodoxy if given long enough. That’s why tradition is not enough - it needs to be kept supple, flexible, fresh, adaptable, and one way of doing this to let it continue to grow into fresh forms which answer to the needs of the ages in which it is presented. Otherwise one is imprisoned in a mere oldness-worship; and if age is what’s wanted by Christians, Hinduism is pretty old 🙂 Neither tradition nor untraditionality is enough - they need each other, otherwise we have stale repetition & dead religion, or anarchy & the danger of dissolution. And so with “subjectivity” & “objectivity” - a butterfly on a slide can be “objectively” studied, but only because it is dead.​

ISTM that truth is something that we are had by - not something we have, or can clutch in our hands, like a stone. It’s something dynamic, growing, fruitful, living, & ultimately mysterious - not an inert, heavy, cold, dead, something we can control, and perhaps beat the brains of others in with; but a living Being, by which we measure and judge, and which judges and measures us. 🙂 Something we enter into, & that enters into us.

The “third eye of wisdom” is wanted, IMO - seeing things in pairs of opposed concepts won’t show us all we need to see. A thousand eyes won’t - but they are better than two alone 🙂 ##
 
I would answer it by saying that none of the Jews had the full revelation of God. Early Jews had some of the revelation, later Jews had some more, but it is quite clear that God’s revelation was an ongoing process, which culminated in the coming of Christ. Once God’s revelation culminated and thus ended, there is no longer any justification for being outside the fullness of that revelation, which is found only in the Church.
 
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