Third Orders

[Aramis]

jmj:

I’m a practicing Byzantine Rite Catholic, and my mother was raised in the Latin Rite. My uncle (mother’s side, practicing Latin Rite Catholic) and Godfather is a very active member of the KoC - he labors to recruit me all the time.

I also know many other Byzantine Catholics who are members of the KoC. One of the most notable was + Professor Daniel Kafka, the longtime cantor and choir director of the Holy Ghost Byzantine Catholic (Ruthenian) Church in Philadelphia. He was a fourth degree knight, and a very active member of his church community. For interest’s sake, his bio is at holyghostphila.byzcath.org/kavka.php

Peace be with you!

P.S. I shall ask my dear Godfather, a member of this forum, to post something more definitive, as I’m certain he could speak more intelligently on KoC membership.

I also am a 4th degree member… but I’m about the only EC in my state who is. The Retention Committee often has to be told to check with their pastor when verifying my parish.

The KofC praxis is not one calling for solemn promises, let alone vows.

 

[Elijahmaria]

There is a canonical obligation to preserve and practice one’s rite. A member of an order, even a 3rd order, of another rite is usually binding themselves to a praxis of that other rite.

For some, Like Brother David, his superior has made plenty of room for him to have a different praxis from the others in his order.

But that’s not required of them. Which is why it’s such a big deal for an EC to jump through the hoops Rome imposed when joining the 1st and 2nd orders.

Both the individual and their superiors need to be aware of their status and different obligations.

Yes. You are quite right and I understand now. I thought perhaps there was something else. But now I see that you are simply talking about the process and practice.

In fact I moved east because of my experience of formation as a third order discalced Carmelite. It was in reading Teresa of Avila and Evagrios the Solitary and finding the strong connection between their teachings that I began to look at St. John of Avila and the strong eastern foundation of the reformed Carmels. He had access to so many of the teachings of the patristic and desert fathers there in Spain, and I was drawn in and through, and prompted to begin attending eastern Catholic and Orthodox liturgies.

Shortly after I had announced that I had translated to the Byzantine Church canonically, I was told that I had no apparent vocation in Carmel. It’s a long story and it might have been different had I pushed the issue, and access to redress for that kind of thing has been expanded by a new constitution for seculars, but I am happy where I am and still very much wedded to St. Teresa of Avila and her counsels.

M.

 

[quenomin]

I’d suggest, like most decorative things we do, it’d be more for our own delight. Most men would just be happy to have the vajay experience and wouldn’t give two hoots if it were dazzling or not.
custom labels
labels and stickers

 

[dochawk]

P.S. I shall ask my dear Godfather, a member of this forum, to post something more definitive, as I’m certain he could speak more intelligently on KoC membership.

I’ll say it authoritatively: any male practical Catholic may join the knights without impediment.

Membership seems to be at least as common among EC clergy as RC, and I’ve brought in at least one eastern priest myself, escorting him to all four of his degrees.

I’m my parish, we actually ran the question of an orthodox parishioner joining up the state hierarchy. The conclusion was that by communing in a Catholic parish, he was Catholic and could join.

hawk

 

[TrueLight]

People shouldn’t judge someone’s knowledge by their affiliation. I’m saddened by that fact. Many people who made me a better Catholic are not Catholics, they’re not even Orthodox. Its clear that what it represents stands true. People believed back then I cannot teach Roman Catholics because I’m not Roman Catholic any longer, despite the fact that I’ve been Roman Catholic for 95% of my life and I haven’t even been one for only one year. Even though I am still Catholic, just not Roman. Its sad people would just judge that way. Really sad.

No, what’s happening is that you expect people who don’t know you to notice the quotation marks and somehow automatically know the story behind it.

That’s not the case. Your affiliation reads as someone who fell away from the faith and yet who is giving advice on a Catholic forum.

Like I said…provocative and a stumbling block…

I just can’t understand how you are comfortable doing that.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

People shouldn’t judge someone’s knowledge by their affiliation. I’m saddened by that fact. Many people who made me a better Catholic are not Catholics, they’re not even Orthodox. Its clear that what it represents stands true. People believed back then I cannot teach Roman Catholics because I’m not Roman Catholic any longer, despite the fact that I’ve been Roman Catholic for 95% of my life and I haven’t even been one for only one year. Even though I am still Catholic, just not Roman. Its sad people would just judge that way. Really sad.

No, what’s happening is that you expect people who don’t know you to notice the quotation marks and somehow automatically know the story behind it.

That’s not the case. Your affiliation reads as someone who fell away from the faith and yet who is giving advice on a Catholic forum.

Like I said…provocative and a stumbling block…

I just can’t understand how you are comfortable doing that.

I have to agree with you on this.

This is why I believe that the religion option should either not be there, not show up on our posts, and/or be only a check box option of true religions and not a fill in the blank with what ever you are feeling at the moment.

 

[Evan]

No, what’s happening is that you expect people who don’t know you to notice the quotation marks and somehow automatically know the story behind it.

That’s not the case. Your affiliation reads as someone who fell away from the faith and yet who is giving advice on a Catholic forum.

Like I said…provocative and a stumbling block…

I just can’t understand how you are comfortable doing that.

I have to agree with TrueLight on this one

 

[5Loaves]

We’ve been going though lots of old papers at my parish recently and it seems that the KoC basically pulled together the mansion we are in after the Russian Catholic Center purchased it in very considerable disrepair.

I realize OP was asking about Eastern Rite Catholics belonging to Western Rite lay organizations. I just wanted to say that without the KoC it seems unlikely my parish would have had a temple and might have had to continue in the old Mission chapel, or gone to some more dismal place, like someone’s gym…

P.S. further off topic… Elijahmaria: There is a community of Discalced Carmelite Nuns locally who used to come to our Russian parish and sing in the choir, in old church Slavonic, from behind a grille in our temple. When Father Karl Patzelt was priest of our parish he would go to their monastery and celebrate the DL for them there. One of our current priests is their chaplain. There is "A Brief History of the Carmel of the Mother of God. here including their work in Russia.

 

[Elijahmaria]

We’ve been going though lots of old papers at my parish recently and it seems that the KoC basically pulled together the mansion we are in after the Russian Catholic Center purchased it in very considerable disrepair.

I realize OP was asking about Eastern Rite Catholics belonging to Western Rite lay organizations. I just wanted to say that without the KoC it seems unlikely my parish would have had a temple and might have had to continue in the old Mission chapel, or gone to some more dismal place, like someone’s gym…

P.S. further off topic… Elijahmaria: There is a community of Discalced Carmelite Nuns locally who used to come to our Russian parish and sing in the choir, in old church Slavonic, from behind a grille in our temple. When Father Karl Patzelt was priest of our parish he would go to their monastery and celebrate the DL for them there. One of our current priests is their chaplain. There is "A Brief History of the Carmel of the Mother of God. here including their work in Russia.

Thanks very much for the link! We have the discalced Byzantine Carmelite community of nuns here in PA at Sugarloaf. One of the things that kept me from going back to the secular Carmelites when they re-opened the door to me was the fact that I realized over time that my vocation is a religious one and not as secular one. It is my hope before I die that I will be able to take public vows as a penitential hermit under the eastern canon guiding the estate of the consecrated widow. Till then I live the life. God must build the house…

M.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No, what’s happening is that you expect people who don’t know you to notice the quotation marks and somehow automatically know the story behind it.

That’s not the case. Your affiliation reads as someone who fell away from the faith and yet who is giving advice on a Catholic forum.

Like I said…provocative and a stumbling block…

I just can’t understand how you are comfortable doing that.

Well, if people want to judge other people based on their supposed affiliation, then its their problem, not mine. From one person of a cultural minority here in North America to another, we both know its wrong.

 

[Mickey]

It is my hope before I die that I will be able to take public vows as a penitential hermit under the eastern canon guiding the estate of the consecrated widow.

Forgive my ignorance…but what is “the eastern canon guiding the estate of the consecrated widow?”

 

[MrPip]

Forgive my ignorance…but what is “the eastern canon guiding the estate of the consecrated widow?”

Check this: intratext.com/X/ENG1199.HTM. Scroll down to “Title 12”–I’m not a betting man, but I’d be willing to bet a penny that it’s in there–somewhere . Maybe in the meantime (while you’re looking for it) Mary will provide a more specific answer–and probably correct me as well :thumbsup:.

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, if people want to judge other people based on their supposed affiliation, then its their problem, not mine. From one person of a cultural minority here in North America to another, we both know its wrong.

I have to say this.

Equating someone reading your religious affiliation and then assuming something is not the same as being treated a different way due to your ethnicity/race.

One is discrimination, the other is making an assumption based on something you have chosen to label yourself with.

Apples and oranges my friend.

 

[TrueLight]

Well, if people want to judge other people based on their supposed affiliation, then its their problem, not mine. From one person of a cultural minority here in North America to another, we both know its wrong.

Wow. Really? LOL.

That’s actually worse than gay people who tell me I should support gay marriage because the movement is similar to the black civil rights movement

 

[Elijahmaria]

I know there are some Eastern Catholics that have issues with what I am doing, but it doesn’t bother me as it is my life and my call to serve God and not theirs.

Oh you are a O. Carm Brother? I am only reading these days with half an eye…

So you are an eastern Catholic and O.Carm Brother…do I have that right? If it were not for the ancient order of Carmel, who would have passed on the teaching of the eastern fathers [desert and patristic] to the reformed saints?..

It’s the Spanish Carmelites, since the 16th century, who have kept hesychasm alive in the west…outside the walls of the monastery.

How can this be seen as a “latinization”…rather it is more of a byzantinization of a Roman rite religious order…

I’d like to spend time talking to you a little more…as you have time or interest…There’s a link in my sig line that will take you to a yahoogroup that I own. It’s active as a list, and you can find my email address there and many many very good people.

 

[AnthonyJ]

No, what’s happening is that you expect people who don’t know you to notice the quotation marks and somehow automatically know the story behind it.

That’s not the case. Your affiliation reads as someone who fell away from the faith and yet who is giving advice on a Catholic forum.

Like I said…provocative and a stumbling block…

I just can’t understand how you are comfortable doing that.

I completely agree with you.